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rhew
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Translation Help Please
« Thread Started on May 19, 2012, 12:16am »
I've managed to get an overall translation of a burial record, but I would like to get the actual Chinese characters for the names of the individuals, and the name of the village. I guessed a few so far. The pronunciations are Hakka.

Yung Quee Hew (in pinyin Yong Kui Qiu) died 1931 at 59 years old
(born Gon Lan ?) (pinyin Guan Lan)
Had 6 male descendants:
Chun Muk 春
Chun Wou 春
Chun Wah 春
Ten Sue 天
Ten Lok 天
Ten Wah 天
Buried Yee San Tein section, Row 7 plot 11



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rhew
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Re: Translation Help Please
« Reply #1 on May 19, 2012, 12:27am »
I've also come across some other names that I am having trouble translating into electronic form. (see attached Word Doc). Some of the "milk" names may be close to illegible. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Robert

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laohuaqiao
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Re: Translation Help Please
« Reply #2 on May 19, 2012, 8:01am »
All words are in traditional Chinese characters

丘永魁 東莞 觀瀾 大圍場

Chun Mu 春木
Chun He 春和
Chun Hua 春華
Tian Shou 天壽 (simplified 寿)
Tian Lu 天祿
Tian He 天和


The first 3 names in the doc presumably are
天壽
天和
天才

Hew Yung Quee 邱永魁 Ah Fa 亞發
Hew Yit Quee 邱奕魁 Ah Sheng 亞生
Hew Fun Quee 邱煥魁 Ah Gui 亞貴
Hew Ying Quee 邱英魁 Luo Jie 羅姐 (simplified 罗)
Hew Sun Quee 邱順魁 Ah Xiang 亞祥
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rhew
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Re: Translation Help Please
« Reply #3 on May 19, 2012, 2:21pm »
Thank you so much for the quick response.

I presume that the romanized versions you gave are pinyin, versus the Hakka pronunciation that I had heard before, and hence some of the sounds are different, in particular the 和 character.

Someone who had looked at it before said that the milk name Luo Jie 羅姐 seemed to be a female's name. Do you agree? Or did they mis-read the handwriting?

As regards the ancestral village, I notice that you used some characters that are different from the ones I had been using: could you please clarify whether they are interchangeable, or whether they refer to different places (even though they may be close together)?.

"Market Town":
Yours: 觀瀾 Guan Lan;
Mine: 观澜镇 Guan Lan;

"Village":
Yours: 大圍場 Large paddock;
Mine: 大和村 Tai Fo Chun (or Tai Wo Chun) (pinyin Da He Cun) (Large peaceful place, or Japanese community), just north of
大窩疆 Tai Wo Keung (pinyin Da Wo Jiang) (Large Nest Border) on the maps


Thanks,
Robert
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lachinatown
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Re: Translation Help Please
« Reply #4 on May 19, 2012, 4:22pm »
觀瀾 (Traditional) = 观澜 (simplified Chinese)
大圍場 (T) = 大围场 (S); 场 = market
大和村 (T) = 大和村 (S); 村 = Village

姐 = [jie3] elder sister; sister; a general term for young women. Left part is the female radical
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rhew
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Re: Translation Help Please
« Reply #5 on May 19, 2012, 7:00pm »
Dear lachinatown:

I think I understand what you mean, but just to be sure, please let me know whether I got it right.

1) The village is 大和村 (T) = 大和村 (S); i.e. Da He Cun. That agrees with what I had previously been told.

2) 觀瀾 (Traditional) = 观澜 (simplified) both mean exactly the same, i.e. Guan Lan Town/City, I get the impression from you that even though it is nearby, it is not what would be considered the closest market town, i.e. too big/far away.

3) I believe you are saying that the nearest market town is 大圍場 (T) = 大围场 (S), dà wéichǎng, but I can't find that name anywhere nearby. (see attached map with both Hakka and pinyin pronunciations). [Is it Da Wo Jiang??] Is that something you looked up, or is that a literal translation of what was on the burial record in the first post in this thread? Does anyone know of a map that might have better detail of that area?

4) 姐 refers to a woman, but I suspect it might be a "mis-spelling". Hew Ying Quee 邱英魁 Luo Jie 羅姐 (simplified 罗) was really a man. Could you refer back to the scanned handwritten image in "Translations.doc" attached to Reply #1 above and see whether it was really a different character, which would refer to a male? I had though his milk name sounded something like "Lo Jak" (or "Luo Jak") in Hakka: does that give you any clue what other character the writer might have intended to use? Perhaps when they were copying the family tree a transcription error crept in? Otherwise, how/why would/could a woman's name have been applied to him?

Thanks
Robert







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rhew
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Re: Translation Help Please
« Reply #6 on May 19, 2012, 10:08pm »
Could you also check the characters for this village and its market town etc? Part of the village looks like 宝安, 观澜, 大和 ? but I'm not 100% sure, and can't match the last character.
Thanks
Robert


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lachinatown
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Re: Translation Help Please
« Reply #7 on May 19, 2012, 11:56pm »
The last character is 人 (people); 大和人 = people from that village

The part puzzles me is 观 which handwritten with a dot at the upper left corner.

Looking at the map, I would say 观澜 is the city.
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rhew
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Re: Translation Help Please
« Reply #8 on May 20, 2012, 12:40am »
I can understand 观澜 Guanlan being referred to as the "big town/market town" near 大和 Da He, but what confuses me a bit is that for the other burial record (his brother), they refer to 大圍場 Dà wéichǎng.

Thanks for your help. If anyone can find 大圍場 on a map, please let me know.
Robert
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lachinatown
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Re: Translation Help Please
« Reply #9 on May 20, 2012, 12:48am »
Robert, where did you get that map? Very nice map.
Wikipedia has the new administrative division.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shenzhen

My Guangdong map shows the city 观澜.

I would say 大圍場 is a sub-district/city. I have seen headstones with less details or more details, depending who wrote them. I know they charge the headstones by number of characters, some don't want to give that much details for privacy, or they do not know all the details.

You know that 大和 Da He is shown on the google map, right?

There is a 大和 DaHe Road leading to the 大和 DaHe village.
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rhew
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Re: Translation Help Please
« Reply #10 on May 21, 2012, 3:11pm »
Dear lachinatown:

The Hakka village map comes from a book "JAMAICAN CHINESE WORLDWIDE – ONE FAMILY” by Patrick & Lorraine Lee, from Canada.

The following are the modern administrative divisions under Guanlan: Da He is right at the top, but I can't find 大圍場 (T) = 大围场 (S). Presumably it was merged/renamed: does anyone have any ideas, or old maps?

440306010 观澜街道 Mission Hills streets
440306010013 112 大和社区 Tai Fo Chun (Da He)
440306010014 112 马坜社区
440306010015 112 横坑社区
440306010016 112 岗头社区
440306010017 112 大航社区
440306010018 112 大布巷社区 Cloth Lane Community
440306010019 112 狮径社区
440306010020 112 悦兴围社区
440306010021 112 丹湖社区
440306010022 112 四和社区
440306010023 112 新城社区
440306010024 112 茜坑社区
440306010025 112 桂花社区
440306010026 112 星花社区
440306010027 112 大坪社区
440306010028 112 福兴围社区
440306010029 112 南大富社区
440306010030 112 松元厦社区
440306010031 112 老村社区
440306010032 112 金龙湖社区
440306010033 112 新田社区
440306010034 112 君龙社区
440306010035 112 君新社区
440306010036 112 启明社区
440306010037 112 石马径社区
440306010038 112 广培社区
440306010039 112 大水田社区
440306010040 112 富坑社区
440306010041 112 凹背社区
440306010042 112 陂头吓社区
440306010043 112 上坑社区
440306010044 112 下湖社区
440306010045 112 大兴社区
440306010046 112 大三社区
440306010047 112 桔塘社区
440306010048 112 章阁社区
440306010049 112 翠澜社区
440306010050 112 桂澜社区
440306010051 112 黎光社区

Yes, I have seen Da He on Google and other modern maps, but it isn't on the one by Lee: instead, it has a nearby one 大窩疆 Tai Wo Keung (pinyin Da Wo Jiang).

I have found a selection of older maps of the area on the internet that I am happy to share in case you are interested. Unfortunately not sufficiently detailed for this.
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rhew
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Re: Translation Help Please
« Reply #11 on May 21, 2012, 3:19pm »
This is a headstone for another relative: the 2 characters in the bottom right look like Da He 大和, but I don't recognize anything else. Could you please extract any people's names (including James'), names of villages, or anything else that would be useful in tracing him?
Thanks,
Robert


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laohuaqiao
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Re: Translation Help Please
« Reply #12 on May 21, 2012, 5:21pm »
In the previous document and on the tombstone, there is a "dot" under 大 which makes it Tai 太. The village name is Taihe Cun 太和村.
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laohuaqiao
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Re: Translation Help Please
« Reply #13 on May 21, 2012, 5:27pm »
Looking back to the first photo, 大圍場
is more likely to be Dawei Fang 大围坊
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lachinatown
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Re: Translation Help Please
« Reply #14 on May 21, 2012, 11:07pm »
Noticed 太 too, but just assume error?
Just like the dot at 观.
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