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Post by elmer on Sept 11, 2012 13:36:11 GMT -5
Hello, My name is is Elmer, I am from the Netherlands. Although I have no Chinese looks, my name is Lie, the Dutch interpretation of Li (æŽ). I have been doing research for 10 years and finally I found my Chinese origin. In late october I will visit the place. My ancestor was Lie Tjong Tho / Li Cangtao (æŽæ»„濤) who came from a village called Pengshan (蓬山), these days know as Shangfang village (上房æ‘) in Jiaomei city (角美镇) in Longhai county (龙海县) in Zhangzhou prefecture-level city (漳州市) in Fujian province (ç¦å»ºçœ) Pengshang was founded in 1621 by Li Gongcheng (æŽå·©æ‰¿), who came from the nearby Nanshan (å—å±±), Xiandianshan (仙店山) in Tong'an county (åŒå®‰åŽ¿), currently known as Shanbian village (山边æ‘) in Dongfu city (东åšé•‡) in Haicang district (海沧区) in Xiamen sub-provincial city (ç¦å»ºçœ), in Fujian province (ç¦å»ºçœ) The Li-clan from Nanshan descends from the famous Li Junhuai (æŽå›æ€€), who is supposed to be a descendant from Li Huode (æŽç«å¾·), the presumed promogenitor of all Li's from Fujian. - Does anybody know descendants from this Li-clan.
- Who knows more about the generations between Li Junhuai (æŽ) and Li Gongcheng (æŽå·©æ‰¿)?
- Who knows more about the offspring of Li Gongcheng (æŽå·©æ‰¿), the Li-clan from Pengshan?
Any information is welcome. thanks & best regards, Elmer |
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Post by Doug 周 on Sept 12, 2012 3:11:16 GMT -5
Elmer, Exciting about you planning to visit your ancestral village this Fall! I had trouble viewing your characters, but since I don’t read Chinese, it should not matter to me. Try to use Unicode to encode Chinese characters. Have you arranged a guide? Have you contacted the Overseas Chinese Bureau in your Fujian location? Philipclick has written a lot about his family heritage studies in Fujian, so consider private emailing him. Please share your 10 year research into your Chinese heritage. Wanted: Chinese books on family Li Is there a story about this book you desire? Finally, when you travel to your ancestral village, please share a link to your blog or write about your experiences in this forum. |
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Post by philiptancl on Sept 14, 2012 5:21:25 GMT -5
Elmer, I received an email from Doug regarding your posting. Of late I am pretty busy both professionally and in Chinese genealogy not connected with this SiYi Forum. As such I did not realize my name was mentioned by Doug in posting his reply to you. As to the books you queried at "Wanted: Chinese books on family Li << Thread Started on Sept 11, 2012, 1:39pm >>" it would be quite a miracle if anyone from this Forum could help you especially I suspect your Chinese ancestry was through Indonesia. From what I had observed, the main participants in this Forum are from US, Australia and New Zealand and their Chinese ancestral origin are from Guangdong while yours is from coastal Fujian. As such Chinese genealogical books you are seeking are not likely to have the same origin. I had been collecting Chinese genealogical books and these are the titles of the Li/Lie/Lee (æŽ) zupus among my collection:  See if any suits you. In addition I have my brother-in-law Li (æŽ) zupu consisting of 5 volumes totaling 3063 page entitled: 桃æºå¤ªå¹³æŽæ°æ—èœ. 马æ¥è¥¿äºœè‚‡æ°¸å…¬æŽæ°å®¶æ—会翻å°. 1999 This Lee/Li/Lie clan is from 太平 from Yongchun (永春) County in Fujian (ç¦å»º) Province. So if you say Li Huode (æŽç«å¾·) is the presumed promo-genitor of all Li's from Fujian, I suppose your ancestry and his would connect up somewhere after Li Huode (æŽç«å¾·). Although I had traced his ancestry all the way to Huang Di, I had yet to construct his pedigree into a proper chart that I normally do. So when you manage to trace your ancestry line, do contact me again (either through the Forum or through its personal message board) as it would be interesting where both of your two branches in Fujian meet. For the past few weeks or so I had been in email and Skype contact with another person from Netherlands who is researching his wife’s ancestry. She is a Yu/Yee/Ee/ Oe (ä½™) whose Chinese ancestry is also from Fujian through Indonesia. Another surname clan of his interest is the Kwik/Kwek/Guo (éƒ) from Indonesia. Part of the family tree of this branch is below:  What is interesting is that é¾æµ· (龙海) is also mentioned therein as to where that surname Kwik/Kwek/Guo (éƒ) originated from. My friend from Netherlands may be contacting you. Philip |
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Post by yuminnan on Sept 14, 2012 15:48:44 GMT -5
Hi Elmer,
Check your messages. I send a PM in Dutch.
Regards Tjabring
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Post by Doug 周 on Sept 15, 2012 2:29:04 GMT -5
To correctly view Chinese characters please select <View>, <Encoding>, and <Unicode> option from the browser <Menu>Elmer, From my reply to Nancyclick , try to print out all your information before arriving to China since public WiFi and a publicly available printers might be hard to find. Get as many given names of as many ancestors born in China. Include siblings of your ancestors. One of the nuances of Chinese genealogy is that most males had many given names (see: Chinese Names-House of Chinn and Chinese-Canadian Genealogy - Chinese Names - Resourcesclick) and the Zi (å—) name is most easily found in a quick perusal of a jiapu because it is in the main charts. You want to gather as many given names your ancestor used because you will not be sure that you have the correct Zi name. If you get a hold of your jiapu, try to get the whole jiapu copied or purchased. There is a lot of information in the biographies including wives’ names, date of birth and death, etc. IMHO
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Post by elmer on Sept 16, 2012 13:04:42 GMT -5
Dear all, thanks for your answers.
PhiliP; thanks for your titles. I will ask my friends in Xiamen to make a transcription (I can only read Chinese through MDBG.net, meaning that I can not do anything without digital characters)
I found the following lineage between Li Huode and my ancestor Li Gong Cheng, even though chronologically it does not fit:
5. The LÇ family of Bà nlÇŽng (åŠæœ—)
74ã€HuÇ’dé (ç«å¾·), ancestor of the family LÇ of Fújià n province → 75ã€Zháowén (æœæ–‡) → 76ã€QiÄnsÄnláng (åƒä¸‰éƒŽ), moved with his children to YÇ’ngdìng county (永定县), HúlÇng (æ¹–å²), currently known as HúkÄ“ng city (æ¹–å‘镇) in YÇ’ngdìng county (永定县) in Lóngyán prefecture-level city (龙岩) in Fújià n province (ç¦å»ºçœ)
6. The LÇ family of HúlÇng (æ¹–å²)
76ã€QiÄnsÄnláng (åƒä¸‰éƒŽ), moved with his children to YÇ’ngdìng county (永定县), HúlÇng (æ¹–å²), currently known as HúkÄ“ng city (æ¹–å‘镇) in YÇ’ngdìng county (永定县) in Lóngyán prefecture-level city (龙岩) in Fújià n province (ç¦å»ºçœ), → 77ã€SÄnwÇ”láng (三五郎) → 78ã€ShÅ«liáng (淑良) → 79ã€Hóngdé (å®å¾·) → 80ã€YÇŽnzÅng (è¡å®—) → 81ã€Xià ozÇ (å梓), moved to PÃnghé county (平和县), Sà nkÄ“ng city (æ•£å‘镇) and afterwards to PÃnghé county (平和县), Nánshèng city (å—胜镇), ZhèngkÄ“ng (郑å‘, unidentified place)
7. The LÇ family of PÃnghé county (平和县)
81ã€Xià ozÇ (å梓), moved to PÃnghé county (平和县), Sà nkÄ“ng city (æ•£å‘镇) and afterwards to PÃnghé county (平和县), Nánshèng city (å—胜镇), ZhèngkÄ“ng (郑å‘, unidentified) → 82ã€Yù (è°•), founder of Nanshan (å—å±±), near Xiandià n hill (仙店山) in Tóng'Än county (åŒå®‰åŽ¿), currently known as ShÄnbiÄn village (山边æ‘) in DÅngfú city (东åšé•‡) in HÇŽicÄng district (海沧区), in Xià mén sub-provincial city (ç¦å»ºçœ) in Fújià n province (ç¦å»ºçœ)
8. The LÇ family of NánshÄn (å—å±±)
82ã€Yù (è°•), founder of NánshÄn (å—å±±), near Xiandià n hill (仙店山) in Tóng'Än county (åŒå®‰åŽ¿), currently known as Xià mén sub-provincial city (ç¦å»ºçœ), HÇŽicÄng district (海沧区), DÅngfú city (东åšé•‡), ShÄnbiÄn village (山边æ‘) → 83ã€JÅ«nhuái (å›æ€€) → 84ã€RÇ”jÇn (æ±è°¨) → 85ã€Zhìzhèng (致政) → 86ã€? → → → ??ã€GÇ’ngchéng (巩承), ca.1595-1660, departed from DÅngfú city (东åšé•‡) in 1621 and founded PéngshÄn (蓬山) in LóngxÄ« county (é¾æºªç¸£), currently known as Shà ngfáng village (上房æ‘) in JiÇŽomÄ›i city (角美镇) in LónghÇŽi county (龙海县) in ZhÄngzhÅu prefecture-level city (漳州市) in Fújià n province (ç¦å»ºçœ)
Dear Tjabring: I will answer your PM
Dear Doug: thanks for the suggestions. I always have all my material with me. As far when it comes to names, just one name has survived in the memories of the family and the archives of the East Indies, so that could become very easy or very complicated. Unfortunately, from what I heard the genealogic records of Pengshan have not survived the Cultural Revolution. However, as it is known that Pengshan was founded by Li Gongcheng, from the Nanshan Li-clan, from Li Huode-branch, it seems some records must have survived. The most obvious place would be Taiwan as the Taiwanese have issued some books about the Nanshan Li-clan (these are the books I am looking for!) and they are the ones who have taken the initiative to rebuild the Li ancestral temple in Shanbiancun (formerly known as Nanshan)
best regards, Elmer
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