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Post by kaliman1960 on Feb 8, 2012 13:19:47 GMT -5
I know that it is common for each home in the village to have an Ancestral altar. I noticed in a picture of my grandfather's village that there is a Ancestral Hall dedicated to a specific person. How common is this and why would a specific Ancestral Hall be built?
Larry
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Post by douglaslam on Feb 9, 2012 7:25:15 GMT -5
My own village has something like twenty or more ancestral halls. There is one dominant one which I called ancestral hall central. Sadly, most of them are fallen into disrepair or turned to other uses.The sheer number is unique amongst the villages.
I think this was a form of friendly rivalry amid clan members. When an individual is doing well, he builds a hall to distinguish himself and his offspring. For his descendants, it is like "my dad (or granddad) is smarter than yours."
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Post by laohuaqiao on Feb 9, 2012 12:25:00 GMT -5
Adding to what douglaslam said, when a surname clan grew to a certain size, descendants would raise money to build an ancestral hall to honor their founding ancestors. When an individual achieved certain prominence, in the past that usually meant scholarly achievement and consequently government position and fortune, members within his lineage of the clan might erect a hall in his honor.
Ancestral halls were used for community ceremonies. Many of them housed schools for the children in the village.
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Post by arthurchin on Sept 14, 2012 20:10:26 GMT -5
H there,
Found my great grandfather house's in Kaiping official title deed. Visited it in April this. It is vacant and rundown, the roof even have collapsed. My grandfather and granduncle names are written as owners. As we are overseas Chinese born in Malaysia, can we transfer the property to our names. The official issue date of the deed is 1989 but the house was build before WW2. Any information with regards to the transfer is very much appreciated. Thank You
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Post by laohuaqiao on Sept 14, 2012 21:57:18 GMT -5
Arthurchin,
You have to speak to the village officials to find out what documents are needed or whether people in the village can provide witness that you are the rightful heir to the house.
As to the deeds dated 1989, I would assume it was at that stage of the economic reform which began in the early '80s that housing in China returned to private ownership. From the beginning of communist rule, all land and houses were owned by the state. Once returned to private ownership, the government had to issue new indeeds.
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Post by arthurchin on Sept 20, 2012 0:07:37 GMT -5
Hi there,
I have written to Kaiping Wai Qiao Ju email: waiqiaoju@kaiping.gov.cn Are they the villages officials. How to locate them if I were to go to Kaiping again. Problem is I do not speak Mandarin. Can the officials speak Toishanese which I do.
More info very much appreciated. Thank You
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Post by helen on Sept 20, 2012 0:20:43 GMT -5
Hi Arthur - I hope they speak your dialect. My husband went to Guangzhou recently, and it took him 3 days before he found someone who could actually speak Cantonese.  |
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Post by laohuaqiao on Sept 20, 2012 8:35:53 GMT -5
Arthurchin,
Kaiping Wai Qiao Ju is Kaiping Overseas Chinese Affairs Office. Yes, they may be able to help and guide you through the process. They should also speak Kaiping Wah or Toishanese.
The local government structure under Kaiping are townships, within each township are administrative districts or villages. Each administrative district or village oversees a group of villages. By village officials, I was thinking of the government officials at this level, as there are no officials for individual villages. They know all the residences in the village and the relations to each other.
This goes back to genealogy book, zupu or jiapu, as an important public document. Once everyone is properly placed in the genealogy tree, there is no question as to who has the right to the house deeds.
The deeds to our family houses in the village, that were once under my grandfather's name, were transferred to my father. My father didn't need to prove his identity because people in the village could vouch for him. I don't know if they requested my grandfather's death certificate, but I remember they asked for a photo of my father standing next to my grandparents' tombstone.
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Post by arthurchin on Sept 22, 2012 22:14:24 GMT -5
Hi Laohuaqiao,
Thanks for the great info. Phew! think mine will be long and complicated process. My father, aunty and uncle are all in theirs ninety so I think it will be very complicated. Are the officials there helpful or are they those who wish you will forget about the property and give it back to the state.
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Post by laohuaqiao on Sept 24, 2012 14:36:54 GMT -5
arthurchin,
In Siyi area, village officials are residents of the village clusters, meaning they are likely to belong to the same surname clan as you, may even be a close relative. It's very unlikely for them to have any design on your family's house, unless there is plan for the village to be torn down for commercial development or a highway construction and house owners are expected to be compensated. In general, rural people have a great deal of respect for their own ancestors and for other people's ancestors. Your family house should have an ancestral altar set up, no one would want to disturb it.
Strange as it may sound to people outside of China, even in urban cities if an owner of an apartment has set up an ancestral altar, the resale value of the apartment goes down significantly.
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