June
Member
Posts: 70
|
Post by June on Feb 3, 2009 6:46:14 GMT -5
I am trying to find the name of a village/area just outside the middle of Jiangmen. I do not know the name of the area although was told that it could be called Pak Sar. I have been told that there is a road called Sing Lee Road, this road has or had the Jiangmen immigration building on it. Off this street is a road translated as Young Street, about 1.5 kilometres up this street is the area my husband comes to.
When I paid a short visit about 5 years ago I remember that the area nearest the city was being built up with apartment blocks and new buildings, but that as you walked up Young Road it changed and we were in an area of old buildings, houses and shops.
If anyone could help it would be appreciated.
Thank you
|
|
|
|
Post by Henry on Feb 3, 2009 9:48:53 GMT -5
Alex, I have posted a map of Jiangmen city below. I believe that on this map, Pak Sar = Bai Sha and your Sing Lee Road is probably Shengli road. I have pointed to the Bai Sha bus station, however, the area just north of the bus station is Bai Sha. Henry ![]() mysite.verizon.net/vzepzaui/Bai Sha.jpg[/img] |
|
June
Member
Posts: 70
|
Post by June on Feb 4, 2009 6:27:49 GMT -5
I have checked the site with the ancestral villages on and believe I have found what I am looking for. It shows village 568 Pak Sar with family surname of Chan and a reference of GQ 1099.
Could someone please advise how I can now check this reference.
Thank you
June
|
|
|
|
Post by Henry on Feb 4, 2009 7:29:26 GMT -5
June, Yes, this looks like the Village Database entry for the ancestral village you are seeking. To locate the grid reference "GQ 1099, go to my website on the following link: mysite.verizon.net/vzepzaui/maps3.htmland scroll down to the 3rd map (Sunwui). GQ refers to the quadrant - read across horizontally to 10 and then look up vertically to 99. Then you'll see "Pak Sar" just SW of Kong Moon - the old name for Jiangmen. I believe this is also the location that I have indicated in the map I have posted above. The Village Database map for Sunwui shows that there is a separation between the location of Pak Sar village and Kong Moon city because the map is vintage pre- 1960 when they were, but, during the past 50 years - urban sprawl has now includes Pak Sar ( Bai Sha ) into its boundaries. In the map above, I point to the Bai Sha bus station - there is a bus symbol, just NW of this symbol, is a red circle , symbol for a village on this map, and the Chinese characters for Pak Sar. Also, according to the bar scale for distance on this map, this location is approximately 3 km ( 2 miles) from central Jiangmen. Two miles is about one hour's worth of leisurely walking - as you described in your previous visit. Henry |
|
June
Member
Posts: 70
|
Post by June on Feb 4, 2009 15:34:50 GMT -5
Thank you so much Henry - I finally feel that I am getting somewhere. What I found did in fact validate what you had thought. Many thanks
June
|
|
June
Member
Posts: 70
|
Post by June on Feb 5, 2009 5:38:31 GMT -5
I would be grateful if someone could confirm that I am on the right track - I checked the internet and found that Sun Wui (where Pak Sar (Baisha) is, is said to be known as Xinhui.
An article also states that - Based on observations of Chinese-Canadian elders living in Edmonton between 1980 and 2005, it would seem that the Taishan language spoken in Baisha in the mid-20th century differed somewhat from that spoken in Taicheng (Hoiseng in the Hoisan language, ̨ ³Ç ), the county seat of Taishan (Hoisan, ̨ ɽ ÏØ ). - Is this correct, and if so would this account for why my husbands dialect is different to most other Chinese I hear.
Thank you
June
|
|
|
|
Post by Henry on Feb 5, 2009 6:58:39 GMT -5
Hi June, Sun Wui is the Cantonese romanization, while Xinhui is the PinYin romanization - both are romanizations of the same Chinese characters. This is the same for Pak Sar (Cantonese) & Bai Sha (PinYin). Also, to make it more confusing, the Chinese characters can also differ because approximately one third of the "traditional" Chinese characters have been simplified, these comprise the "simplified" Chinese character set. So one needs to be very careful when checking and matching Chinese characters - which is how people who cannot read Chinese characters do it - like me.  Your husband's dialect is a sub-dialect of Cantonese - there are differences, but people can probably understand about 60 % of what the others are saying. Poor transportation and communication infrastructures throughout the history China has resulted in many dialects of spoken Chinese, however, the unifying element has been the written Chinese characters. Henry |
|
June
Member
Posts: 70
|
Post by June on Feb 6, 2009 3:37:20 GMT -5
I have found the name Hop Singh Wah and believe it may be a street in Pak Sar. Are there any maps that woud show this - unfortunately I do not have the Chinese characters for it.
Thank you
June
|
|
|
|
Post by Henry on Feb 6, 2009 8:58:50 GMT -5
June,
I checked some contemporary Chinese map sources and they do not provide street level detail - only the major roads are named.
Henry
|
|
June
Member
Posts: 70
|
Post by June on Feb 8, 2009 5:03:49 GMT -5
Thank you for checking Henry.
Could you please tell me - when I look at the Data Base it says County - Sun Wui, Area 2, Heung Pak Sar, Village Pak Sar. Could you please advise what is the difference between a Heung and a Village.
Also if the village or area is large how do I know where my husband comes in - and is this why I need my father - in laws full name.
Thank you
June
|
|
|
|
Post by Henry on Feb 8, 2009 7:09:35 GMT -5
Hi June,
"Heung" is a rural district area. "Village" is a large cluster of houses.
Usually, a village is located by it proximity to the nearest larger market town, because there are probably over 5,000 villages and hamlets (small villages) in just Taishan county - it is very difficult to know each village, especially when there may be a dozen or more villages of the same name within a county.
Then knowing the which "heung", kind of sub-district, is useful in confirming the market town location. Then there is the county and province name to help uniquely identify the heung and its township.
In your case Pak Sar is both the name of a village and the heung.
No, your father-in-law's name is needed to identify the specific branch in the lineage chart of the family/clan. Depending when this family/clan genealogy book was last revised, your husband's name may not appear in the book. If the last update was 50 years or more - your father in law's name might not be included. This is why it would be nice to also have the name of your husband's grandfather. Also, having the names of 2 or more successive generations helps to really confirm that the specific branch of the lineage chart has been properly identified.
Henry
|
|
|
|
Post by tyuti1668 on Feb 8, 2009 10:02:42 GMT -5
|
|
June
Member
Posts: 70
|
Post by June on Feb 9, 2009 1:31:42 GMT -5
Do you have a google address for that please - when I google I get a very low resolution.
Thank you
June
|
|
|
|
Post by tyuti1668 on Feb 9, 2009 7:16:32 GMT -5
left part is in very low resolution The 白沙 bus station map/ satellite |
|
|
|
Post by raymond on May 20, 2010 7:50:10 GMT -5
Alex, I'm a little late in adding to this topic. Anyway, in reference to the "Taishan" dialect being spoken in the Xinhui area......generically, many Overseas Chinese in the US refer to the dialect of the Siyi area at large as speaking the Taishan dialect......most likely this is due to the fact that most Overseas Chinese who came to the US were from Taishan District. In reality, every district in Siyi has its own dialect....furthermore, even townships within a district have their own particular dialects. So, the general dialect spoken in Xinhui District (also referred to as "Sun Wui")is indeed called "Sun Wui Wah". As for the Xinhui-Jiangmen discussion, Xinhui and Jiangmen are adjacent cities. I understand that Xinhui District had existed prior to the establishment and settling of Jiangmen. Jiangmen became a port of departure for many of the area's Chinese to various overseas destinations most likely because of its strategic geographical proximity to the vast network tributaries of the Pearl River. The Bai Sha/Pak Sar waterfront area is now largely preserved as a historically significant area with it colonial-style shop houses and commemorative statues and plaques. Jiangmen has since overtaken Xinhui in area size and population. Raymond
|
|
