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Post by helen on Sept 6, 2009 3:48:02 GMT -5
It's almost 70 years since the Refugees arrive in New Zealand from China - October 1939. I have been asked to look for the name of a boat that came from HK, via Phillipines, Port Moresby to Sydney. - around late September to early October 1939.
I think it might have been the Taiping Yang. The man I spoke to was only 8, and can not totally recall the name. He said that the boat was later torpedoed by the Japanese on a voyage to Hong Kong. (He thought that if it wasn't the Taiping Yang then it may have been the the Tai Yuen)
But he did recall the name of the business/accomodation that they had while in Sydney, waiting a few weeks before leaving for New Zealand late October 1939. The business was "Ging Larn Jarng"
I have found a little information on both boats - but can you Australians help me?
Thanks
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Post by Henry on Sept 6, 2009 6:06:15 GMT -5
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Post by geoff on Sept 6, 2009 7:01:18 GMT -5
Hello Helen, Incoming crew/passenger lists arriving in Sydney 1845-1922 are being transcribed online at Mariners mariners.records.nsw.gov.au/shipdate.htm I realise this is out of your date range but maybe useful for other research. There maybe a file at National Archives of Australia, giving him permission to arrive in Sydney while intransit to NZ www.naa.gov.au/Recordsearch Search now Keyword or name Location of record Sydney Search Let me know in an email if you find a file. |
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Post by helen on Sept 7, 2009 5:35:57 GMT -5
Thanks for the Photos Henry - Those ships look massive. The Chinese were below decks, and the women remained there most of the vitage, due to sea sickness.
Geoff, I can't locate any shipping list for October 1939. I know that the group arrived in Auckland 30 october 1939. They stayed in Sydmey a few weeks, so assume they arrived in Sydney in September 1939. They stayed in a place that sounds like Ging Larn Jarng - possibly dormitories that belonged to Chinese businessmen in Sydney. Where or how could I get someone to confirm the ship was Taping Yang? I guess a reported arrival of it in September 1939 would be ideal.
Thanks for your help.
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Post by geoff on Sept 7, 2009 6:59:37 GMT -5
Helen, On the National Archives of Aust site there are files of arrivals onboard Taiping Yang in Nov 1940 & onwards. So the Taiping Yang called into Sydney. How can we verify your info? I'll try to find where passenger arrivals Sept/Oct 1939 are archived. A place called Ging Larn Jarng? Here's some history on "King Nam Jang in Sydney" at www.shfa.nsw.gov.au/sydney-About_us-Our_heritage_role-Heritage_and_Conservation_Register.htm&objectid=4500035"Workers of King Nam Jang also had occasional interaction with the Australian government. They were often used as interpreters by the Department of Immigration and during World War II; the Government paid the Cumines family to house Chinese refugees from New Guinea at King Nam Jang. (Fitzgerald 1996: 44, 138) However, they were not always seen in a positive light. During World War I, King Nam Jang was suspected of harbouring deserters and stowaways. (Fitzgerald 1996: 138) In 1924, thingy King, manager of King Nam Jang, was involved in a suspicious incident of custom officers rivalry. Senior Boarding Officer L.L. Clifford suspended Inspector Donohoe from duty because a packet of electrotype was apparently recovered from on of Donohoe’s drawers. In Clifford’s report to his superiors, he claimed that the packet read 'Lam Kee Macao Opium' and that it was addressed to 'King, Nam, Jang, 85 George Street, North'. Clifford insinuated in his report that Donohoe and King were conspiring to smuggle opium into the country. However a recent translation of the Chinese Characters on the packet indicate that 'opium' is not mentioned at all. King Nam Jang was in business for nearly 90 years when it first began in 1913. Lo King Nam’s descendants are involved and well known within the Australian Chinese community. Henry Cumines, Lo King Nam’s grandson, was born in 85 George Street in 1921 and would help out in the store. (Smith 1990: 14 - 15) He went on to become a successful businessman and ran an export company in the Pacific Islands. Henry died in 2002". |
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Post by geoff on Sept 7, 2009 7:22:48 GMT -5
Helen,
At National Archives of Australia, naa.gov.au, there's "Passenger lists, inwards ships, Sydney, 1 Jan 1923 onwards, series C1115". It looks like the individual passenger lists haven't been digitised/barcoded yet. You may have to send an email with your request to : ref@naa.gov.au.
Primary description of series C1115
Series number
C1115 Date registered
23 May 1985
Title
Passenger lists, inwards ships, Sydney [Form M308], chronological series
Accumulation dates
1 Jan 1923 - Contents dates
System of arrangement and control
Chronological, by date of ships arrival Range of control symbols
1923 -
Ownership other than Commonwealth
Predominant form
PAPER FILES AND DOCUMENTS
Agency / person recording
1 Jan 1915 - CA 785, Collector of Customs, Sydney/ (from 1985) Australian Customs Service, State Administration, New South Wales
Agency / person controlling
1 Jan 1915 - CA 785, Collector of Customs, Sydney/ (from 1985) Australian Customs Service, State Administration, New South Wales
Quantity and location
89.33 metres held in NSW
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Post by geoff on Sept 7, 2009 16:10:48 GMT -5
Hello Helen, There are some marine timetable images on www.timetableimages.com/maritime/images/shiplist.htmA ship similar in name to the "Taiping Yang" was the "Taiping". I do know that the "Taiping" arrived in Sydney on 29 Sept 1939 from HK, as my father & ggfather were onboard. They were returning to Sydney from their visit to Canton. There's a photo of the "Taiping" on the same site that Henry gave on 6 Sept. |
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Post by geoff on Sept 7, 2009 16:17:46 GMT -5
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Post by geoff on Sept 8, 2009 3:57:25 GMT -5
Helen,
It looks like the original building at 85 George St Sydney still exists but refurbished. The gentleman may recall the building, adjacent to Sydney harbour.
To view 85 George St Sydney/ Unwin Stores today..................
Go to "Google Australia Maps".
Enter 85 George Street, Sydney, click on "Search maps button".
Ä street map will appear or click on "map".
Click on "street view" for an image of "Ünwin Stores at 85 George Street Sydney".
Place cursor on image, hold down left button of mouse & move mouse to view image at different angles. You can click on the left or right direction arrows on the image to move along the street.
The Unwin Stores front onto a park which is adjacent to Circular Quay, Sydney harbour.
Hope this may help.
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Post by douglaslam on Sept 8, 2009 5:04:47 GMT -5
Henry's shipping list intrigues me. MV Tai Yuan is an almost identical sister ship to the Changsha, on which I sailed to Sydney. There is Tai Yuan, but where the bloody hell is Changsha? I am nostalgic for the old tub, the two week voyage left me with indelible memories close to half a century ago.
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Post by helen on Sept 8, 2009 5:06:42 GMT -5
Hi Geoff, re your post:
"A ship similar in name to the "Taiping Yang" was the "Taiping". I do know that the "Taiping" arrived in Sydney on 29 Sept 1939 from HK, as my father & ggfather were onboard. They were returning to Sydney from their visit to Canton."
I wonder how long the voyage was to from HK to Sydney? It could possibly be the ship that these people came on, as they stayed a while in Sydney before leaving in the Niagara, bound for Auckland, arriving 30 October 1939.
Maybe this ship is the one I am looking for. Do you have the passenger list for the ship that your father was on? If so, I can email you the shipping list of the Ngs who came on to New Zealand.
The other mention of the Refugee people arriving in Auckland - that was 10/10/1939, and they were my Mother in law's Chan family from Hargee Village.
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Post by douglaslam on Sept 8, 2009 5:19:37 GMT -5
Hi Helen,
Did the NZ government carried out its threat to deport the refugees, including children born to NZ fathers and refugee mothers? It seems the complainants' took the stance that if you can beat them, deport them. This is highly immoral and defies any measure of human decency and justice. I hope it had a happy ending.
Douglas
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Post by helen on Sept 8, 2009 5:34:59 GMT -5
Hi Douglas - fortunately for our families, the government relented, and allowed the women and children to remain. We are celebrationg 70 years of the refugess this year - and there are a few who are still alive. In the photo that Geoff mentioned in an earlier post - one of the ladies is now 93 and still alive. All of the children, bar one of the biys, are now in their mid 70s. The man I am helping locate the ship he came out on, is now 78. I hope you have luck locating a photo of your ship. Here's a website with a recording from Alber Cumines - re the migrant hostel invenet.net/chaa/Albert_Cumines_Talk_21Nov2002.html |
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Post by geoff on Sept 8, 2009 6:19:01 GMT -5
Helen, I didn't have to lookup the passenger list for the Taiping which arrived in Sydney on 29 Sept 1939. I found this info on ggf's Cert of Exempting from Dictation Test located at the National Archives of Australia in Sydney. You'll need to email the National Archives as not all passenger lists have been put online yet. At National Archives of Australia, www.naa.gov.au/Recordsearch Reference: C1115 Location of record: Sydney Search now Click on "Request copy" to complete an email request for "A copy of a passenger record". "I wonder how long the voyage was to from HK to Sydney"? Back in 1939, the Changte & Taiping took about 21 days from HK to Sydney. The ports of call included: HK, Manila, Thursday Island, Cairns, Townsville, Brisbane, Sydney, & Melbourne. Does the gentleman recall the address of "King Nam Jang" as being 85 George Street Sydney, right on Sydney harbour foreshore? Google map, street view is great for identifying buildings & locations. |
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Post by geoff on Sept 8, 2009 16:33:22 GMT -5
Helen, There are a number of records of arrivals on Taiping 29 Sept 1939. At National Archives of Australia, www.naa.gov.au/Recordsearch Keywords: Taiping 1939 Location of record: Sydney Search One file is.........."TAIPING 29/09/1939 [Certificates of Exemption for passengers; includes photographs and 2 passports] [2cm] Series number SP115/1 Control symbol BOX 76 Contents date range circa 1932 - 1939" I'm not sure if "temporary certs" were issued to those persons who were "intransit". |
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