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Post by helen on Nov 27, 2012 23:38:24 GMT -5
Douglas - you did it again. Well done - and congratulations Fay Chee - somewhere for you to hang the photo. I do hope someone else in the family have a photo of the grandparents.
Earlier this month we were lucky to find my father in law's father and sister's graves in Wu Shek. No headstone - just a dusty plot of land - known by the grandchildren of the sister.
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Post by helen on Nov 27, 2012 23:52:48 GMT -5
This is it - bare land beneath a tree- 2 plots in a semi circle. Only the close family know who it belongs to. Lap Chi's grandfather and Grand aunty, in Wu Shek. Attachments:
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Post by douglaslam on Nov 28, 2012 0:54:05 GMT -5
Tuesday, 27th Nov. with the main purpose of my visit to Toishan complete, we were eager to make our way home. Both my companions had things to do. Ming, I need to say, his mother passed away in early Oct. It is still a custom for the Chinese in this part of the world to observe the Two Sevens. The First Seven is the first seventh day after the death of a dear one when prayers and chants are offered . Seven seventh days or the Last Seventh as it is known, the family in mourning would give a thanksgiving dinner as it were to those who offered their support (with money), help, and condolences before the burial or cremation as is the practice now. My other companion Ma Gor the bone picker had to help Ming with his invitation list and do the running around. I am invited because I did give a fair amount to Ming on this sad occasion. Ma Gor also had work orders to repair graves later in the week. He is doing just as well as he did last year. Good for him. The dinner is on Sat. 1 Dec. The next day, 2 Dec., I am going back to HKG for three more nights, then fly out on the 5th for Sydney. I paid 280 for a three person room in Canton. For 278 in Toishan, I got buffet breakfast for three in the deal. We ate at the western style dining room. There were European faces, they were probably business people. Ma Gor the country boy was a little uncomfortable. He didn't mind I corrected him, to use a glass for milk, and don't put sugar with it. I also told him not to put egg shell and scrap on his non-throw away place mat, don't stir the coffee with his folk. He brought with him the hard Chinese liquor in a white container ( from last night's dinner) to finish it off. When Ming brought in a slice of dark cake, he asked Ming why take on a piece so badly burned. I didn't say anything when he picked up his bacon rashers with his fingers. That is the way he is, a simple country peasant farmer turned bone picker. You will remember, I said his late mother, an illiterate woman, stood by my mother during the insane Mao years. She never abandoned my mother when she was under relentless attack and vilification by Mao's thugs. I don't forget that. Both my companions are smokers. I became a passive smoker in their presence. I get the fume at the dining table or in the hotel room. I had to put up with it. Fay Chee, I had a chop cut for you, I'll post it to you from HKG. There is a grave still left undisturbed, but I am not sure if it is Yau Tak who was buried there. We had all the information needed and the contact number, never mind Szeto Shum. Shi Cheng didn't quite know why he got sick, it was a bit of a mystery. I hope you are going to handle the travel better here. The restaurant we dined at is not like your average city ones. Don't expect carpeted floor, spotless linen, or table napkins. The people who serve you could be in thongs or plastic slippers. There was one dish served up which I was not comfortable with . No, it wasn't a cat or dog. It was the tiny migratory bird probably flew in from Siberia to escape the harsh winter. At 7 RMB each, we had ten for our table. The bird when cooked whole was no bigger than a hen's egg. I stopped at one, but Shi Cheng wanted a few more to take home. I don't know the bird's name in English, their numbers are dwindling each winter due to the obvious reasons. Its sale is banned in HKG. I do not normally turn down my guests' choice of fare. Dogs are OK, wild games and endangered species I do not encourage.
Helen, where is Wu Shek, is it Dark Rock, which is in Chungshan?
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Post by lachinatown on Nov 28, 2012 1:02:50 GMT -5
Wow. Wonderful trip Douglas.
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Post by helen on Nov 28, 2012 1:07:18 GMT -5
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Post by tyuti1668 on Nov 28, 2012 2:00:45 GMT -5
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Post by douglaslam on Nov 28, 2012 2:39:49 GMT -5
I am happy to have paid 7 RMB each for a non-endangered specie of birdlife. I want no part in the demise of this very intrepid, hardy, tiny creature.
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Post by FayChee on Nov 28, 2012 9:04:32 GMT -5
Helen, the picture of the gravesites are remarkable. I wonder how the circles stay intact like that? Would it be possible to have some sort of marker put next to them or would the relatives be offended because it is a secret? If my grandparents graves do not have markers, do you think it would offend anyone if I had it done?
I do have a photo of my granddad with the family that I posted awhile back. I can 'crop' the photo and just enlarge his figure to hang on the wall next to my dad.
Fay Chee
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Post by FayChee on Nov 28, 2012 9:49:02 GMT -5
Douglas, when your trip is over, I don't know how I will fill in the empty void left by your exciting posts. I love how detailed you recount your adventures and the little lessons of real life. I must admit that I also eat bacon with my fingers....we should all have a bit of 'Ma Gor' in our lives.
Thanks so much for getting my Chop. I was afraid to mention it as your agenda is so tight.
You are very observant to notice an unmarked gravesite. Was it close to the house? I'll ask nephew if he knows who it belongs to.
I've sent your posts to my brother and he is so geared-up to take this trip in April.......I haven't seen him this passionate in awhile.
Fay Chee
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Post by helen on Nov 29, 2012 0:29:05 GMT -5
Helen, the picture of the gravesites are remarkable. I wonder how the circles stay intact like that? Would it be possible to have some sort of marker put next to them or would the relatives be offended because it is a secret? If my grandparents graves do not have markers, do you think it would offend anyone if I had it done? Fay Chee Hi Fay Chee - we didn't ask about a marker, as the next 2 generations are young enough to know who is buried there. But I do worry for the future - like 50 years from now - as those children that belong to the village are now in New Zealand, or have left the village. I will have to try to maintain the family lineage between my children and theirs. But as the generations grow, the history may not necessarily last. It will be interesting to hear from others how they would broach the subject.
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Post by Henry on Nov 29, 2012 11:50:50 GMT -5
Dear Helen,
When I wrote my 400 + page book: "Tan Genealogy: Heritage and Lineage" in English - this was attempt to provide a general surname / family resource that provides the history for all future generations from my family. I did this because I could not find anything close. But, over the past decade, there have been various publications that have pretty much done this in Chinese. All you have to do is have about 120 pages translated and there you have it - at least until the time when many of our surname clans came through the MeiGuan (Pass).
From this historical hallmark, many of the village genealogy books provide a narrative of the history and migration of the surname clan right down to the village and even to one of your great grandfathers - another English translation needed.
Then you need to document the migration of your ancestors from the ancestral village to the various overseas locations that went to. There is another story that needs to be documented about how they came, adapted, persevered, and carved out a life as an overseas Chinese family.
Many of us are members of a very unique generation of first generation born overseas Chinese that can still provide the connections from our immigrant parents to our second generation Chinese born in places all over the world.
Yes, this is a lot of work, but, if our generation does not capture this information and record - it will be lost forever. People from southern China are most fortunate in being able to preserve their heritage and lineage - many Chinese in the northern provinces lost all that information forever because of the destruction by the Red Guards during the Cultural Revolution.
My feeling is that if is our duty and obligation to update, maintain, and continue the documentation of our family history and lineage - just think of all the sacrifices that our ancestors made over a span of 4,000 + year to preserve this invaluable information for us - can we do less ?
Henry
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Post by douglaslam on Nov 29, 2012 12:28:15 GMT -5
Fay Chee, Chikan and Chishui are not close to each other. That's why you should have Shi Cheng and his driver to whisk you around. Chikan is in Hoiping, and very close to diaolou clusters. You should include a tour of the diaolou during your visit. Perhaps you father had harboured secret dreams of building a diaolou to distinguish himself. The problem with that is ; English-speaking guided tours for diaolou depart from Canton. It'd be hard to squeeze that one in. I did not visit any grave as it was getting quite dark. It was the old villager who told me a grave of significance to you is undisturbed. Tuesday 28th, was a very plain old dull day as dictated by the weather. It was cold and wet. I made that my rest day, watching how and why my laundry was not getting dry after days on the line. Wednesday 29th, I ventured out alone by myself to Shekkei. I called an old friend, yes, he is old, about 83 or 84, a man whom I have known in Sydney for decades. I am related in a distant way to his younger brother, also from Sydney. Peter, the old fellow was doing well, he now spends much of his retirement time in Chungshan, where he bought a home unit many years ago. We had lunch on the upper floor restaurant of Fuhua Hotel. After lunch he showed me some of the ritzy shopping malls. I also booked a bus ticket for HKG to leave on Sunday morning at 11:30. The price was 120 RMB. Tyuti1668, what has happened to the bus terminal used to be next to the International Hotel? I bought my ticket from a kiosk in the middle of the road. What Peter had in mind was to take me to a massage parlour, the proper kind. He is a regular customer; there , he booked us in for a two-hour long session. Two lovely young things, both young mothers from other provinces, worked on us. We soaked our feet in hot water before they gave them a good workout. Then it was the head's turn, the arms and back. It must have been very tiring work for the two young women. For all that, it cost 172. Peter insisted on treating me to lunch and a massage. Just as well I didn't have to pay because I needed every penny for later on. Whereas my travel companions have been eating out with me everywhere, I have been neglecting my cousin's son and his family.They are all very kind to me and treat me as an elder. Today, the older girl returned from boarding school, it was time for me to make good of my promise to take them all to a buffet dinner. There was also another one of my cousin's granddaughters from the boarding school. It was a party of six. I hadn't expected to spend the whole afternoon with Peter. There wasn't time for me to get back to the village and get more money to cover the cost. Anyway, we met up and go to the International Hotel. I checked the cost at the revolving restaurant. The price was at 220 / head. I simply didn't carry that much money with me. We moved to The Fuhua www.fuhuahotel.com.cn/, where it was at 118 plus service charge. The full cost was 708, I had exactly 700 plus some loose change. We did have a good time, everyone enjoyed the experience at the revolving restaurant. Thanks Peter for saving my day by not letting me pay.
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Post by carbacca on Nov 29, 2012 15:42:42 GMT -5
haha the "cash" situation in china was rather foreign to me as well, as in NZ i routinely only carried about 20-40NZD on me, as you can put everything on the credit card. In China/HK in the beginning i was so not used to carrying that much cash, most days i would start with 1500-2000RMB. and of course denominations that only went to 100RMB did not help. and now that i am back my wallet feels ridiculously lightweight and one day we were carrying this brick around..
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Post by FayChee on Nov 29, 2012 20:11:43 GMT -5
Douglas, I am hoping that the undisturbed grave is that of either my grandfather or grandmother. I am hoping that it is not my dad's bones and that his grave here is empty afterall. I guess if it is my dad, it would be good for him, and I can stop wondering if I should have his bones dug up and sent back to China.
Can you tell me if there is a significance to the word 'undisturbed'? Does it mean that something is still waiting to be done for that person? Do I need to have someone like Ma Gor perform the ritual of cleaning the bones and placing them in a proper grave with the other relatives? I will do a Ching Ming for them either way.
The excitement grows!
You have done so much good for alot of people during this visit Douglas. I know that I cannot thank you enough already and yet there is still more to come.
Fay Chee
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Post by tyuti1668 on Nov 29, 2012 22:27:53 GMT -5
I also booked a bus ticket for HKG to leave on Sunday morning at 11:30. The price was 120 RMB. Tyuti1668, what has happened to the bus terminal used to be next to the International Hotel? I bought my ticket from a kiosk in the middle of the road. 11:30 & kiosk (opposite Int'l Hotel?) I guess it's another competitor: "Chinalink / CTS / 991" instead of the "Winglee/ GDHK / Eternal East " The old one is under rebuilt:
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