Where in Chung Shan is....?

[mugenpower168]

I am interested in researching the administrative divisions of Chung Shan County during the period between roughly 1800 and 1950. This period holds great significance in the history of overseas Chinese as it was during this period that huge numbers of Chinese left China (namely Southern China) for different countries. For this reason, many historical records of early Chinese immigrants will refer to old administrative divisions which no longer officially exist today.

In regards to Chung Shan, historically, the administrative divisions were:
- 仁都 Yun Doo (part of 1st District)
- 良都 Leong Doo (part of 1st District)
- 隆都 Lung Doo (2nd District)
- 欖都 Larm Doo (3rd District)
- 四大都 See Dai Doo (part of 4th District)
- 得都 Duck Doo (part of 4th District)
- 谷都 Gook Doo (5th District)
- 恭常都 Kung Seong Doo (divided into 6th and 7th Districts)
- 黃梁都 Wong Leong Doo (8th District)
- 黃旗都 Wong Kee Doo (9th District)

Note that from 1910 onwards, Chung Shan was divided as districts as indicated by the brackets. The Roots Village Database sorts Chung Shan according to these districts (or "Areas"). www.c-c-c.org/villagedb/display.cgi?level=County&id=4

Attached are two maps of Chung Shan that show the "historical" administrative divisions.

Attachments:

[mugenpower168]

I have two questions regarding Leong Doo.

1. Is the present day 南區 of Chungshan the exact same area as Leong Doo?
2. Which villages constitute 十八鄉 of Leong Doo?

[tyuti1668]

"Historical" 十八鄉 www.zsda.gov.cn/uploads/book/shizhi/zhongshanshizhi/53.htm
in 中山市志
www.zsda.gov.cn/uploads/book/shizhi/zhongshanshizhi/
Better contact Leong Doo "experts" for details: www.zsnews.cn/zt/zsofa/LiangDuQiaoKan/

[Henry]

Hi Mugenpower168,

I believe the reference atlas/gazetteer you would be most interested in is:

"Geography of Kwangtung Province for Hawaii Residents" by Wai Jane Char / Francis H. Woo 1981

from:

Hawaii Chinese History Center
111 North King Street, Room 410
Honolulu, Hawaii 96817

This 31 page document focuses on the Chungshan region and has lots of maps and village lookup tables in Chinese and in English.

If you are not able to secure a copy, then please contact me at "[e-mail]"

Henry

[mugenpower168]

Henry: Thanks for the recommendation, I have sent you an email.
Tyuti1668: This link is great!!! www.zsda.gov.cn/uploads/book/shizhi/zhongshanshizhi/53.htm Thanks for that.

Question, from 1910-1936, what is a "段"? www.zsda.gov.cn/uploads/book/shizhi/zhongshanshizhi/56.htm It states the number of 段's that each district administers however it seems that the actual list are villages. To add further confusion it says that in total, Chungshan administers 247 段's and 435 villages. So exactly what is a 段 and how does it differ from a village?

[Henry]

Mugenpower168,

If you have not already done so, please check out: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhongshan#Administration

"Zhongshan is a prefecture-level city of the Guangdong province. An uncommon administrative feature is that it has no county-level division. The city government directly administers 18 towns, four district offices (corresponding to the urban area of Zhongshan proper) and a development zone:"

Each of the districts and some of the towns have their own websites - I imagine you can make direct queries about the administrative geography of this region and its components.

At the bottom of this page are some additional links:

* Zhongshan government website: www.zs.gov.cn/english/index.action
* Zhongshan News website (in Simplified Chinese): www.zsnews.cn/
* Zhongshan News website: www.zsnews.cn/
* Zhongshan Overseas Friendship Association website (in Simplified Chinese): www.zsnews.cn/zt/zsofa/


Henry

[Doug 周]

I believe the reference atlas/gazetteer you would be most interested in is:
"Geography of Kwangtung Province for Hawaii Residents" by Wai Jane Char / Francis H. Woo 1981
from:
Hawaii Chinese History Center
111 North King Street, Room 410
Honolulu, Hawaii 96817
This 31 page document focuses on the Chungshan region and has lots of maps and village lookup tables in Chinese and in English.

I got a copy from Henry and reformatted it as a PDF. Here is the link:click here=>Geography of Kwangtung Province for Hawaii Residents

Let me know if this link fails.

[mugenpower168]

Aug 14, 2010 1:16:39 GMT -5 Doug 周 said:

I believe the reference atlas/gazetteer you would be most interested in is:
"Geography of Kwangtung Province for Hawaii Residents" by Wai Jane Char / Francis H. Woo 1981
from:
Hawaii Chinese History Center
111 North King Street, Room 410
Honolulu, Hawaii 96817
This 31 page document focuses on the Chungshan region and has lots of maps and village lookup tables in Chinese and in English.

I got a copy from Henry and reformatted it as a PDF. Here is the link:click here=>Geography of Kwangtung Province for Hawaii Residents

Let me know if this link fails.

The link works, thank you.

[Doug 周]

I was advised because of copyright issues to take down the link. Sorry for the inconvenience and I hope not to be in nor cause anyone trouble.

[Doug 周]

Puanani Woo, wife of the late co-author of Geography of Kwangtung Province for Hawaii Residents, Francis H. Woo, and a past president of the Hawaii Chinese History Center in Honolulu, gave permission to post their article. She declared the article to be in the public domain. I have modified the PDF document properties to attribute credit to the original authors.

This is a very good reference for those studying their families origins were in Guangdong Province at the turn of the 20th century. It is applicable not just to Hawaiians, but to all people with heritage from the Pearl River Delta.

Geography of Kwangtung Province for Hawaii Residents <=click

You can read her acknowledgment to the authors at the last page. Please thank Mrs. Woo for her generosity.

Doug

[chumley]

I don't have Chungshan roots, but found the article very fascinating. I have relatives who reside in Hawaii and will inform them about the link. Thank you Henry, Doug and Mrs. Woo.

I think forum members Helen and Harc have Chungshan roots. Anyone with Chungshan roots will find the historical maps interesting and should print copies of it. It's not easy to find detailed historical maps online. You can compare the historical maps in written Chinese or Cantonese Romanization with today's map in Mandarin Pinyin (it's easier to find a present day map online).

[chumley]

Sorry, I mixed up Zengcheng and Zhongshan (Chungshan). My apologies.

[chansomvia]

Thanks Doug for the link to Mrs Woo's paper, it is an excellent piece of writing and very practical. By the way Helen is now in Shanghai visiting her daughter and also seeing the Expo. I have put her in touch with a friend who works in the New Zealand Pavilion and for her there will be no need to queue.

I would like to add my thanks for allowing the article to be read.

Joe (earthquake aftershocks reducing in intensity but had a few of 4 in Christchurch)

[chumley]

Thanks for correcting me. I knew I had erred when I realized that I mixed up Zengcheng and Zhongshan (Chungshan).

My cousins with mixed Sze Yup & Chungshan roots will appreciate reading the article and seeing the historical maps on Chungshan.

[mugenpower168]

Hi all,

So lately I've been doing some more reading on Chung Shan and I have some questions that I hope can be answered:

1. How similar is Duck Doo/Cheung Ka Bin dialect 得都話 (張家邊話) with Nam Long dialect 南蓢話? Is it like comparing 石岐話 with 廣東話?
2. Looking at this table zh.wikipedia.org/zh-hk/%E4%B8%AD%.....96.87.E5.8C.96, Tai Wan, Siu Yan, Lai Chuen and Shan Chau (大環村, 小隱村, 黎村, 珊洲村) speak "village dialect" 村話. These villages were once part of See Dai Doo 四大都 so are their dialects the same or very similar to the dialect spoken in Cheung Ka Bin village 張家邊村?
3. Where is Nam Long dialect 南蓢話 spoken? I read that the most southern village that speaks Nam Long 南蓢話 is Poon Sha 泮沙, is this correct? What about the north, east and west borders?

Thanks