Understanding Jiapu/Zupu for Chinese Illiterates
Oct 29, 2010 4:46:08 GMT -5
Post by philiptancl on Oct 29, 2010 4:46:08 GMT -5
Doug,
You have passed with flying colors in interpreting the dates from jiapu/zupu not only when using the methodology from the spreadsheet but also the Chinese site that Ah Gin had pointed out. Now that you had provided the translation for that site I can see it would be quicker when using it even without the other types of information given.
The worksheet was developed over many years; long before I obtained my zupu in August 2007 which then triggered my greater interest over Chinese genealogy. In the past many older Chinese in Malaysia did not possess any birth certificates and therefore without any documentation indicating their Gregorian date of birth. Usually they would know their lunar date of birth and their age quoted in traditional Chinese manner, which could be 1 (and sometime 2) year(s) older than how age being recorded by others. Usually they would also know their Chinese zodiac (i.e. rat, oz, etc). My passion then was how to connect the two. The spreadsheet then was developed mainly for that purpose alone. In developing the spreadsheet one would need to understand a little about principle behind the Chinese calendar. From there, the initial spreadsheet was developed for use alongside with the Calendrica site, being in English would be comprehensible to Chinese illiterate like me
I knew nothing of Chinese history and Chinese geography when the genealogy bug bit me in September 2007; let alone knowing anything about how dates and times are captured in jiapu. Back then just mastering the ability to follow and trace the pedigree line backwards, with the charts provided in some jiapus, is itself a great thrill and achievement. Even that I find a lot of Chinese literate friends not able to do. However some jiapus do not provide such charts, just the profiles of ancestors within the jiapus. That sets the stage of another challenge in having to construct family tree chart out from these individual profiles. This is one of the purposes of this thread, which I would be doing for the next couple of postings. I cut my teeth on this aspect by assisting Alex (June); see that part of the thread in siyigenealogy.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=names&action=display&thread=752&page=7
In the meantime the understanding of history and geography of China would increase when delving deeper and deeper trying to understand the history of the forebears; where they originated, the migration routes they took and why, the tragedies they faced and so on. There is a whole wealth of information and history one could find in ones jiapu: more so in zupu where collective effort in research might had done and recorded therein.
Having understood how dates are recorded in jiapu, it is then a question of finding out the periods of all the different reigns within the Chinese history. Those who had seriously attended Chinese schools here in the past might quite easily rattled off the successive reigns by heart, just like their ability to rattle off the multiplication tables. Serious Chinese genealogist, like Henry, is capable even to rattle off the start and end of each reign; something really beyond me. It is then a question of incorporating these reigns into the spreadsheet. It is only with Doug current pursuit with his genealogy that I first tested the spreadsheet. With the site Ah Gin had pointed out and with its translation provided by Doug, I should be able to calibrate my chart even further back in time more readily. However I wonder the needs of it at the moment.
I have yet to find any of my Chinese literate friends or acquaintances able to convert Chinese dates to Gregorian. From Doug posting, I note even his relative who is able to translate Classical Chinese (文言文) not able to do that. Wow, not bad for a Chinese illiterate then.
If anyone is interested to have a soft copy of the spreadsheet, do provide me your email through a personal message provided in this Forum. For those who would not eat sausage without knowing what goes into the meat, you can do make the request and I hope I could be able to explain it in my own illiterate way.
Members of this Forum can now find so many others willing to assist. When I first joined this Forum, I could then only have the guidance of my Sifu, Henry. From I could make out, even some of Henry request for assistance then was not without toll.
Philip
You have passed with flying colors in interpreting the dates from jiapu/zupu not only when using the methodology from the spreadsheet but also the Chinese site that Ah Gin had pointed out. Now that you had provided the translation for that site I can see it would be quicker when using it even without the other types of information given.
The worksheet was developed over many years; long before I obtained my zupu in August 2007 which then triggered my greater interest over Chinese genealogy. In the past many older Chinese in Malaysia did not possess any birth certificates and therefore without any documentation indicating their Gregorian date of birth. Usually they would know their lunar date of birth and their age quoted in traditional Chinese manner, which could be 1 (and sometime 2) year(s) older than how age being recorded by others. Usually they would also know their Chinese zodiac (i.e. rat, oz, etc). My passion then was how to connect the two. The spreadsheet then was developed mainly for that purpose alone. In developing the spreadsheet one would need to understand a little about principle behind the Chinese calendar. From there, the initial spreadsheet was developed for use alongside with the Calendrica site, being in English would be comprehensible to Chinese illiterate like me
I knew nothing of Chinese history and Chinese geography when the genealogy bug bit me in September 2007; let alone knowing anything about how dates and times are captured in jiapu. Back then just mastering the ability to follow and trace the pedigree line backwards, with the charts provided in some jiapus, is itself a great thrill and achievement. Even that I find a lot of Chinese literate friends not able to do. However some jiapus do not provide such charts, just the profiles of ancestors within the jiapus. That sets the stage of another challenge in having to construct family tree chart out from these individual profiles. This is one of the purposes of this thread, which I would be doing for the next couple of postings. I cut my teeth on this aspect by assisting Alex (June); see that part of the thread in siyigenealogy.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=names&action=display&thread=752&page=7
In the meantime the understanding of history and geography of China would increase when delving deeper and deeper trying to understand the history of the forebears; where they originated, the migration routes they took and why, the tragedies they faced and so on. There is a whole wealth of information and history one could find in ones jiapu: more so in zupu where collective effort in research might had done and recorded therein.
Having understood how dates are recorded in jiapu, it is then a question of finding out the periods of all the different reigns within the Chinese history. Those who had seriously attended Chinese schools here in the past might quite easily rattled off the successive reigns by heart, just like their ability to rattle off the multiplication tables. Serious Chinese genealogist, like Henry, is capable even to rattle off the start and end of each reign; something really beyond me. It is then a question of incorporating these reigns into the spreadsheet. It is only with Doug current pursuit with his genealogy that I first tested the spreadsheet. With the site Ah Gin had pointed out and with its translation provided by Doug, I should be able to calibrate my chart even further back in time more readily. However I wonder the needs of it at the moment.
I have yet to find any of my Chinese literate friends or acquaintances able to convert Chinese dates to Gregorian. From Doug posting, I note even his relative who is able to translate Classical Chinese (文言文) not able to do that. Wow, not bad for a Chinese illiterate then.
If anyone is interested to have a soft copy of the spreadsheet, do provide me your email through a personal message provided in this Forum. For those who would not eat sausage without knowing what goes into the meat, you can do make the request and I hope I could be able to explain it in my own illiterate way.
Members of this Forum can now find so many others willing to assist. When I first joined this Forum, I could then only have the guidance of my Sifu, Henry. From I could make out, even some of Henry request for assistance then was not without toll.
Philip