Ng Kau and Ng Kun-Pse help me.

[lima21]

Hello, I live in Auckland I'm trying to find anything on my late grandfather's family. He was an indentured Chinese labourer in Samoa in the early 1900s to the mid 1900s unfortunately he died without telling anyone about the village/town in Canton he was from. His name was: Ng Kau (born 20th Feb 1903) and his father was: Ng Kun.

I have my grandfather's signature in Chinese characters that was on his passport that he used from Samoa to visit NZ in 1973.

Does anyone know the name of the villages in or around Canton the Ng families came from and were shipped to Samoa for the plantation work? Can anyone help me please? I feel I'm at a roadblock and I don't know where to go or who to see.
Thanks.

[Woodson]

The first place to look for information is your grandfather's tombstone. The Chinese generally engraved the county and village of origin on it. Take a photo, post it here and we'll translate it for you.

Ng is a fairly common surname which means it isn't limited to one local.

[geoff]

Hello Lima21,

Have you viewed the Tung Jung Association of NZ Inc website for info on Chinese in NZ?

For list of villages see www.tungjung.org.nz/villages.html

There are Ng's buried at Maraka cemetery.

[lima21]

I'm sorry I should've been more clearer. My grandfather returned to Samoa after his visit to NZ and died in Samoa. There is also no engraving or anything written on his tombstone. I know my little information does not help much but that's all I have to go by. I got an answer by a Mr Gordon Wu and said he thinks the village my grandfather was from is Ngar Yiew but I can't find any info on this town. Said my best bet is either pay a visit to Guanzhou and see the village headquarters for this town or either try writing to the Chinese Affairs in Guandong for any info or they might be able to point me to the right direction, I've got to send my grandfathers picture and his signature and emphasise that this is all I have.

[raymond]

Lima21,

On a brief review of the names of villages in the village database website, I may have found the name of your Ng ancestral village. There is a village listing for the Ng family clan name as follows: 瓦窯 / Ngar Yiu / Wǎ Yáo / ngaa5 jiu4 / 3907-4523 (伍 / Ng / Wǔ / ng5 / 0124). This village is located in a heung named 長安鄉 / Cheung On Heung / Cháng ān Xiāng / coeng4 on1 hoeng1 / 7022-1344-6763 (3 subheungs) in 台山 / Toishan County. I am going on the assumption that your "Ngar Yiew" is phonetically the same as the "Ngar Yiu" village listed. With this "strong" lead by far, you can probably pinpoint where Ngar Yiu is located on a map with the help of some of the posters on the siyi website. Not knowing much more information than what you have posted so far, this could be a good time to start thinking of a trip to Ngar Yiu village to hopefully find some trace of your Ng ancestors in perhaps the Ng village genealogy book called a
"jook po" ("zupu" in Mandarin). Good luck in your search!

Raymond

[lima21]

I only have my grandfathers name Ng Kau and his signature in Chinese characters as well as his father's name Ng Kun. Would the genealogy book 'jook po' at Ngar Yiu village have the names in English or in Chinese characters? I'm keen to go to Ngar Yiu but not if the little information I have would be insufficient. Mr Gordon Wu has emailed me and advised that he has in his possession the Ng Family Tree from the 1st generation but I need to know more of my grandfather's family names in Chinese characters before he can advise further. Now this is a problem, I don't have any other names nor in Chinese characters and there's noone to ask. That's why I'm querying the advice to go to Ngar Yiu, what use would my trip be if I don't know any other names? Ive been advise also to write to the Overseas Chinese Affairs in Guangdong so I'll do that, perhaps they can point me to the direction of where I can possibly get some more names. Other than that, I'm stuck!

[Woodson]

In Lima21's post under the future of clans and associations he clearly stated the surname Ng in Chinese is 吳 not the 伍 that is associated with the village 瓦窯 / Ngar Yiu / Wǎ Yáo / ngaa5 jiu4 / 3907-4523.

Lima21 do you know whether Gordon Wu's surname is 吳 or 伍? Any idea why he is so certain that your grandfather is from Ngar Yiew?

The jook po or zupu is in Chinese.

[lima21]

Hi Woodson,

These are quotes that I've just received from Mr Gordon Wu's email he sent me:

"First of all, the Chinese character of your grandfather's name and the fact he was born near Canton indicates to me that
he was from the same village as my grandfather, as all villagers have the same surname - this surname is Ng or 吳 in Cantonese.
The village name is Ngar Yiew (depends on how you spell it) or 雅 瑶 in Cantonese."

".......The village of Ngar Yiew is now surrounded by the growth of the town of Xintang and the area is now called Sarbool."

".....Your grandfather's surname is Ng or 吳 in Chinese characters and if he was born in a village near Guangzhou (Canton), that village is most probably Ngar Yiew which is approximately 600 to 1000 years old. There is another village further south (about 20 minutes away) called Tien Sum, which was a breakaway from Ngar Yiew many years ago and all the villagers are also surnamed Ng. So your grandfather could have originated there also."

I would say that he's a 吳. My grandfather has stated on his passport that his Birth Place is Canton....and this is all I have.

[twoupman]

Lima21,

Gordon Wu’s “analysis” is flawed because he incorrectly assumed your gf came from Zengcheng where some of the Ngs resided in a village called Nga-yiel (see the website provided by Greg). For starters, the Chinese who were indentured in German Western Samoa were not from this area at all, whereas some of those who went to NZ were from Zengcheng. He also incorrectly assumed “Canton” meant Guangzhou City whereas it was often incorrectly used to mean Guangdong Province. Do not forget China is a big country and there are Ngs from many different places.

Based on the scant information you have the chances of finding your gf’s village is very remote. I suggest you ask your relatives if they have any kind of written correspondences in Chinese which may possibly have a return address. Are you very sure your gf’s tombstone does not have any Chinese script on it?

[raymond]

lima21,

By now it is obvious that you must be more definite about how your Ng family clan name is written in Chinese. The Ng surname is also phonetically written as "Eng" and "Wu" in English, all under that same Chinese character 伍, as well as "Woo", "Wu", "Ang", and "Eng" under the Chinese character 吳. For your information, 伍is classified as Wu3 (meaning army troop) on the Chinese Surname website, and 吳 is classified as Wu2. It is possible that your family clan name is the 吳 character as your contact Gordon Wu has so aptly stated, BUT you must somehow find past documentations to verify the Chinese character of your surname. Otherwise, our effort would be futile in trying to point you in the right direction in your roots search. If for some reason you can identify 伍 as your proper surname, then there seems to be a wealth of information on that surname character.

Raymond

[twoupman]

As previously mentioned by Woodson, Lima21 has already clearly indicated in another post her gf's surname was 吳 as in the Wu Kingdom. The correct surname is no longer an issue. She is trying to find a name and location for her gf's village.

[lima21]

Hi Twoupman and Raymond, the area I was told was 'Ngar Yiew' and also about 20 mins south away is Tien Sum which is a breakaway from Ngar Yiew many years ago.

As quoted by Mr Wu: "I am 90% certain that your grandfather came from the Jungsen (Zengcheng) area of Kwangtung ( Canton, Guangdong ) province.
Guangdong, being a coastal province and close to Hong Kong and the shipping lanes, was the source of Chinese labourers overseas in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.
A lot of them came to New Zealand and Australia to cash in their fortunes in the gold mining period of both countries.
A lot of them also went to Canada and the USA where they were employed as labourers to build the transcontinental railway."
Now to me, this is convincing because I haven't received any other reply from anyone advising me differently and with an explanation.


As I can 'twoupman's' reply, I was reluctant to believe the area I was told at first as it may have been the Chinese who came to NZ as oppose to Samoa who came from there. I don't have any other information or chinese scripts written from my grandfather as all of these were destroyed.

[lima21]

I wish I could post my grandfather's signature on here but I don't know how. I've saved it as a JPG file. It definitely looks like a Wu2.

The only other reference I have is from a journal called 'Dragons in Little Paradise' and I've attached some of what it says about the areas the Chinese came from to Samoa.

"It took several months, and shrewd negotiations with Chinese officials, before the first lot of Chinese arrived. There were mixed reactions to the 289 Chinese from Swatow [Shantou]. While many planters praised the enthusiasm of the new arrivals, others belittled the early euphoria. According to Harman, some of the Chinese recruited were `practically useless'.(13)

In 1904, the German Administration agreed to oversee the recruitment of Chinese labour. The fierce competition forced recruiting agents to offer more attractive employment packages to woo labourers.(14) In Hong Kong and South China, A. R. Fries, the Chinese Commissioner for the German government, displayed posters of a Samoan drawing a rickshaw in which sat a Chinese coolie fanned by Samoan women. On other posters, Fries utilised images which were much more attuned to Chinese expectations, such as scenes of cheering receptions accorded to Chinese labourers landing in Samoa by Chinese women.(15)

In June 1905 a further 528 Chinese left Swatow for Samoa, followed by five more shipments before the outbreak of war in 1914. In total, some 3,868 Chinese arrived between 1903 and 1913 under the German Administration. The biggest single shipment in 1913 totalled 1,039. The New Zealand Administration, from 1920, arranged eight shipments totalling 3,116.(16) The last shipment, in July 1934, included Chinese from Toisan [Toishan] who had been lured into signing contracts by agents who `wove an appealing tale of happy and well-fed Chinese in the islands accompanied by pretty brown-skinned belles clutching almond-eyed babies in their arms relaxing under the swaying fronds of stately coconut palms'.(17) The Chinese in Samoa were recruited mainly from the Southern Provinces of Fukien [Fujian] and Kwangtung [Guangdong], with departures centred on the ports of Swatow and Hong Kong."

If there are no other villages in any of the areas mentioned above that carry the surname Ng 吳 and people taken as indentured labourers to Samoa other than Ngar Yiew and Tien Sum then I'll definitely know that my grandfather came from villages. My grandfather would've only arrived to Samoa between the late 1920s to 1934.

Mr Gordon Wu is 90% adamant that my gf came from the Jungsen (Zengcheng) area in which case Ngar Yiel and Tien Sum falls under. Can anyone share with me any different?

[twoupman]

Lima21,

I have the article "Dragons in Little Paradise: Chinese fortunes in Samoa, 1900-1950" by Ben Featuna'i Liua'ana and as you noted none of the areas mentioned are even close to Jungsen (Zengcheng). All I can say is Gordon Wu has no real basis nor proof for his 90% certainty but sheer conjecture based on coincidence. The people who went to Samoa did not go via NZ. Just because some of those in NZ came from Zengcheng does not equate to any similarity for Samoa which was under German administration at the time of your gf's arrival.

Ngar Yiew or Nga-yiel Romanization means the same place in Chinese. Those who went from NZ to Australia, Canada and USA (and vice-versa) were Chinese miners in search of gold and not indentured laborers. How can it make sense to ship indentured laborers from China to North America via the South Pacific?

Unless you can provide further information, I believe your search is futile based on guesses and conjectures. Todate I have not been able to help any Samoans search for their ancestral villages in China because of the tragic circumstances of war and discrimination, and the loss of personal records. As you know most of the Chinese were deported back to China and only a handful remained in Samoa like your gf.

[lima21]

Thanks twoupman, you're right....looks like I'm back to square 1! what do I do? Do I give up because there's nothing else apart from my gf's signature? And no other family member can provide any information... I've tried Ethnic NZ, Pacific Island Affairs, Maota Samoa, the Latter Day Saints website, rootsweb, I've even tried Hong Kong.