Hamlet or Village of Lam-uah in Fujian Province,China.

[theowlscribe]

My paternal grandfather came to Malaya when he was around 18 years old in 1908-10 (maybe around the time Pu Yi became the last emperor). People who came from the hamlet of Lam-uah were mostly surnamed Yeap/Yip and they are Hokkiens (the Yaps like Yap Ah Loy were Hakkas/Kheks and they were born all over the place,some in the northern and some in the southern provinces because they had no homeland of their own) but however the surname is spelt the Mandarin writing is the same,Yek or leaf.

I would be grateful to anybody who could post the location map of Lam-uah here. Thank you. I googled but there was no information whatsoever about this little place.

When I was a child it was impressed upon me that the surnames Yew/Eu/Ewe and Sim were brothers of the Yeaps/Yips/Yaps. The eu is the pomelo fruit,the sim is the heart of the fruit and the yap is the leaf. The clan association of the Yap,Yew and Sim of Melaka is very active. They often hold CNY celebrations and other functions.

[tyuti1668]

泉州府 or 漳州府+ village name in chinese

[philiptancl]

Hi Theowlscribe,

I have a strong suspicion that Lam-uah is not a hamlet but the county of Nan’an (南安). Nan’an (南安) is pronounced as “Lam-uah” by the Minnan (闽南) Hockien/Fujian (福建) in Malaysia. Nan’an County is next the Yongchun (永春) (Eng Chun) County. Yongchun (永春) is where my grandfather came from in 1910.

Some three years ago, I did see an obituary in Malaysia for someone whose husband is of the surname Ye (葉/叶) (Yap/Yeap/Yip) from Nan’an; the advertisement which I had made a scan of. See image below:



There are many people originating from Yongchun (永春) and Nan’an (南安) who had settled in Melaka/Muar/Tangkak area. My father-in-law’s grandfather first came to Muar from Yongchun (永春) while my mother-in-law’s grandfather settled in Tangkak also from Yongchun (永春).

Henry and I visited Bukit Cina in Melaka in August 2008 to see the old Chinese graves there. I remember seeing many graves inscribed with their ancestral place as 福建永春. I suggest that you visit the grave of any of your Ye (葉) relative to see whether 南安 is inscribed on the gravestone.

Looks like the Chinese surname clans in Melaka hold some sort of celebrations in their respective clan halls. I know the Chen/Tan (陳/陈) clan holds it on the second day of CNY.

Philip

[theowlscribe]

Thank you both for taking the trouble to reply.

Yes,I've heard of the name Eng Chun. They are hokkiens also. I think Na'an is correct. Lam-uah is the name used by the hokkiens because once I met an old man who was in his 70's on my first trip to China and he happened to be a hokkien Yap. He told me he came from Lam-uah and when I mentioned that my gfather also came from there he immediately treated me like a relative LOL.

It's good to know the place exists but it would not be possible to visit my relatives there because I only have one surviving uncle in Province Wellesley,mainland Penang (gfather settled there somehow and married grandma who was a Chinese born in then Siam) and I think the family has lost contact with the China relatives. It would be nice I guess to establish contacts with them again and go visit this "homeland".

So far I've made 2 trips to China,including once to Yunnan but I had never been to Fujian province which I'm thinking of visiting and if possible go to Lam-uah as well. It's just to fulfil my curiosity about the place. In fact,my gfather never returned for a visit. I don't know why they did not keep in touch with the family in China because my gfather could already afford to visit in the 50's/60's before he passed away in 1972. My father and uncles were born in then Malaya and none of them nor any of my cousins had been there and all of them could have been able to afford a visit in the 90's or 2000's but I suppose they had all become so localised/comfortable here nobody gave a thought to China.

Surely Lam-uah or Na'an must have changed a lot in 100 years. When I was a kid my gf did tell me about life in then Lam-uah. It was very hard and they were very poor.

Besides the Fujian province does anybody know if the hokkiens also live in Anhui province or any other province? Thanks.

[laohuaqiao]

Besides the Fujian province does anybody know if the hokkiens also live in Anhui province or any other province?

Hokkien is the southern Fujian dialect, Minnan, for Fujian. During the Qing dynasty many hokkiens crossed the strait over to Taiwan and Minnan became the local dialect of the Taiwanese.

Since the founding of PRC, I'm sure many southern Fujianese have moved to other provinces in China.

[tyuti1668]

Sept 19, 2013 11:15:41 GMT -5 theowlscribe said:

if the hokkiens also live in Anhui province or any other province? Thanks.

Anhui tieba.baidu.com/p/1591100858 | en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhenan_Min It's weird tieba.baidu.com/p/2596417791 to native speaker when 1st heard.

[theowlscribe]

The hokkien spoken by the Taiwanese could sound more like the one spoken by the hokkiens of the southern part of this country (Melaka and Johor) and Singapore and even the hokkiens of Kuching. The Penang hokkien is quite unique. My gfather spoke his Lam-uah hokkien which I could hardly understand,left alone speak. My father also spoke Penang hokkien. My mom and the younger daughters-in-law also could not understand his hokkien.

When I was a kid I used to run to my father to ask what gfather wanted. He was fierce like all Chinaman (and only liked male children) and I was very afraid of him as only his wife,children and older in-laws or grandchildren could understand his hokkien. We used to say "Ah Kong kong theng-suah uar" - grandpa speaks China language LOL. In those days chung kuok was theng-suah or long mountains/hills as China was mountainous in many regions.

[tyuti1668]

According to dictionary: 140.111.34.28/holodict_new/ 阿公講唐山話 A-kong kóng tn̂g-suann uē.

Penang hokkien is based on 漳州話. Ur grandpa spokes 泉州話.
Taiwanese/ S. Malaysia / Singapore /Amoy is the mixture of 2 variety .

[philiptancl]

I will respond to Theowlscribe later. As to the point brought up by Laohuaqiao and Tyuti1668 I do not have the overall Hokkien distribution in Anhui or other provinces. What I have, and as shown below, are the distribution of Yongchun (Eng Chun) people (who are also part of Hokkien people) in the world and the distribution of my Xiǎohù (小岵) Nánshān (南山) Chén/Tan Clan (陳氏) descended from progenitor Xiào Wèi (校尉) in China. Xiǎohù (小岵) Nánshān (南山), now known as Hushan (岵山) is a town within Yongchun County (永春縣).



To understand the scatter of Xiǎohù (小岵) Nánshān (南山) Chén/Tan Clan (陳氏), some knowledge of its history would shed some light. According to “Yǒngchūn Gazette” (永春县志): “In 1277, the Mongolian army invaded Fujian province and the Chén (陳) clan of Pénghú (蓬壶), together with the Cài (蔡) clan of Dōngyuán (东园) took part in resisting the Mongolian army. When they were defeated, the Chén clan was almost completed wiped out."

Towards the end of the Yuan Dynasty/Yuán Cháo (元朝), in 1354, in what is known as the “Liù'èr Huā Shìjiàn or Incedent” (六二花事件), the Chén (陳) clan took part in another rebellion against the Mongolian rule led by Chén Zhān (陳占) of Huā Shí (花石). My 19th great grandfather Zhēn Yòu (真佑)’s second son Jūn Zé (君泽), third son Gōng Zhōng (公忠), fourth son Gōng Fǔ (公著), eighth son Rú Guān (儒官) were killed, their properties were confiscated. My 19th great uncle Jūn Zhì (君治) moved his family out of the ancestral place in Xiǎohù (小岵) and his decedents are to be found in various part of Fújiàn province (福建省). My 18th great uncle Gōng Yìn (公荫) first escaped to Xiānyóu (仙游), then moved to Ānxī (安溪). His decedents are to be found in various parts of the provinces of Fújiàn (福建省) and Jiāngxī (江西省).

In escaping from the slaughter of our Chén Clan by the Mongolian rule, my 17th great grandfather Chén Gōng Mào (陳公茂) took his whole family to Nán'ān (南安) to live with his wife’s Lǐ (李) family.

My 17th great grandfather Chén Gōng Mào (陳公茂) died 65 days after the birth of 16th great grandfather Yōu Dào Gōng (諱:辅公, 字:國盛, 號:優道公). Yōu Dào Gōng was brought up by my widowed 17th great grandmother Lǐ (李) in the neighboring county of Nán'ān (南安). Yōu Dào Gōng moved back to Xiǎohù (小岵) when he was still at a young age. Yōu Dào Gōng was unfamiliar both with the people and the place. Being very late and also tired from the journey, he decided to squat under the eaves of a house to rest. Perhaps he was so weary that he fell asleep till dawn while resting there. The owner of the house, where he rested, is one with the surname Wú (吳). While Wú was asleep that night, he had a strange dream. In his dream he saw a gigantic pine tree, growing from the left side of his house that covered the whole village. In the morning, Wú (吳) found an intelligent looking boy outside his house. Wú took a liking towards the boy. He took him in and raised him up. As the boy grew up, Wú found him to be hardworking and honest, hardworking and honest. Thus he decided to give his own daughter hand in marriage to Yōu Dào Gōng (優道公) when the later was age 15. After marriage Yōu Dào Gōng (優道公) felt that, as a man, he should not be dependent on others and that he should venture out on his own. To his plan, his in-laws agreed and gave him a few acres of land for him to cultivate. (This land was located at the lower side of Wú Yǐng Nán Shān (吾穎南山)). Having decided upon this course of action, Yōu Dào Gōng along with the help of his in-laws and friends, constructed a house to the newly wed to stay in. Upon finishing the house, he named it the Mt. Nan hut. Picking an auspicious day they moved in. When my 16th great grandmother Wú Miào Rán (吳妙然) passed away, her descendants performed the filial ritual. At the left side of the house, they built a shrine named Xiànggōng Gōng (相公宮) where they worshipped the deity Wǔ'ān Zhūn Wáng (武安尊王). This was the beginning of our ancestral footing in Xiǎohù (小姑).

[theowlscribe]

Wow your map and write-up are awesome. It is unfortunate I'm mandarin illiterate because my father decided that Malaya was under British rule and I would have a better chance at life if I had a good command of English so i was sent to an English missionary school.

Thank you for taking the trouble. It looks like the hokkiens are all over much of Asia and are even in North America and Australia. They seem to have spread out all over the eastern side of China.

[philiptancl]

Hi Theowlscribe,

I too am not able to read and write Chinese as the medium of instruction during my years of education were all solely in English. My grandmother (I was without both parents since the age of three) sent me to English medium school in 1952 (when Malaya was under the British colonial rule). Even after Independence when I first attended University here in 1965, all the the 4 years were in English (half my classmates were from Singpapore as there was no Engingeering degree offered then at the University of Singapore). So not knowing how to read and write in Chinese should not prevent you from pursuing your interest in knowing and understanding your Chinese ancestry.

The two maps you see are not the extent of the spread of Hockien as you have interpreted. To give you the equivalent in the Malaysian context, the first map is equivalent to say the spread of residents of the district of Ulu Langat (Eng Chun County) of the State of Selangor ( Fujian Province) of the Malaysia (China) to all parts of the world. The second map is the spread of a particular Tan clan from the town of Kajang (Xiaohu Nanshan) town to all parts of Malaysia (China).

I hope to respond to your earlier posting at a later date. Currently, during my free time, I am busy collecting materials to respond to Miles. I think I should be able to solve what she set out to find. I am also hurrying to prepare the 4 genealogical surname Chen/Tan/Chin/Chan charts for Henry which he intents to present to his brother-in-law coming 80th birthday. The charts need to be converted into format for printing before sending to the printer. Sending the printed charted to US will take another 10 days.

[philiptancl]

Hi theowlscribe,

The counties of Yongchun and Nan’an are next to each other and I do not thing the composition of surnames within the two counties would be very different from each other. Base on the reference book “永春县姓氏志” that I have for Yongchun, the surname Ye/ Yap/Yeap/Yip (葉/叶) in Yongchun ranks 22nd while Yu/Ee/Eu/Er (余) ranks 25th. Personally I have yet to meet any Yap from either Yongchun or Nan’an. Both the surname clans are relatively small in number within Yongchun. I seem to have the impression that the zupu for the surname Yu/Ee/Eu/Er (余) could be contained in one zupu which was updated in 2002. So far I had tracked some 5 different set of people I know of, with that surname but from different sub-branches, to be within Yu/Ee/Eu/Er (余) zupu for Yongchun that I have. As such, I would not be surprise if the zupu for Yap clan within Nan’an could also be contained within one common set of zupu. So if you could find a Yap zupu updated in recent years, you may find your ancestry within it.

[theowlscribe]

Hi Philip,

Please allow me to apologize for taking nearly two years to reply to your post. I've just returned to the internet. I had been offline for almost 2 years as my spouse (also a Tan/Chen but is Teochew. Ancestors from Teochew/Swatow regions) had only recovered from a serious,near-fatal illness. If all goes well,I hope to visit Lam'uah/Na'nan in 2017 or 2018 as I would like very much to see the village my paternal grandfather came from. I'm not able to trace his roots in China as I had never seen my great grandfather or the whole China clan and worst of all I cannot read Mandarin. It's difficult to converse with China folks who only speak Mandarin. Even those in the 50's and 60's cannot speak dialect now. Luckily my spouse knows Mandarin. I believe it is imperative that we preserve dialect. A dialect is a language. When a language dies a whole culture could disappear. Mandarin was never the language of the Chinese people as it was the language of the then ruling Manchus.

I still recall this story my father told me when I was a child. My paternal great grandmother came from China to vist her son,my gfather. It seemed that while she was here in Malaya at my gfather's house in the kampung of Permatang Pauh,Province Wellesley/Seberang Perai a circus was being transported on foot from Butterworth to Bukit Mertajam. Gfather's house was just beside the old main road from BW to BM. All the dangerous animals were being transported in cages but the elephants had to walk. Well,great gmother had never seen an elephant (China doesn't have elephants) and it was the first time she had ever laid eyes on a real-life elephant. It was huge which gave her a fright and she promptly came down with fever. I think she had not expected the elephant's sheer size.

I will search google map for Na'nan province and see what I could find. Thank you for your help.

[philiptancl]

Hi theowlscribe,

If you know how to speak Penang Hockien, you should be able to communicate with people in Nan’an (南山). Nan’an speaks the same type of Hockien as in Yongchun/ Eng Chun (永春). In Yongchun I find ordinary people on the streets converse in Hockien, not in Mandarin. From what you had said before, I am quite sure the older generations of Yap/Ye (葉) relatives would know the particular place in Nan’an your great grandfather originated from. If your paternal great grandmother had visited Malaysia before, there should be some correspondences. I would not be surprise that your grandfather would had send things/money to relatives during those difficult Cultural Revolution times before he passed away in 1972.

Should you be in Kuala Lumpur anytime in future, maybe we could meet up to exchange information before you proceed with your trip to Nan’an. I just met up with andrewAU, a member of this Forum from Melbourne, with his wife in my house on Friday 16 September 2015 to discuss his search for ancestry.

Philip Tan

[theowlscribe]

Hi Philip,

Thank you so much for your kind reply. Yes,I can speak Penang Hokkien but find it very difficult to understand my gfather's Hokkien. Yes,my gfather did send money back to China for many many years bcs he became a very well-to-do grocer/landowner. However,I do not know if he still did so after he retired. After he passed away in 1972 there was very little communication between my father/his brothers/their sons with the China clan.

I know my gfather's name (those days they only had one name after the surname. There was no middle name) so if I'm able to find his village I should be able to trace the grandchildren/great grandchildren of my gfather's brothers and cousins. Thank you so much for your kind gesture. If I'm able to meet up with you I will let you know.