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Post by tkgraham on Jul 25, 2014 23:27:50 GMT -5
I am trying to find any information about my grandfather's family, not only for myself, but for my mother, aunts and uncles. He came from Loong Kai aboard the Empress of Asia in 1914, through Vancouver, Canada, and settled in New Brunswick. He passed in 1959 - before I was born. I have hit dead ends trying to find out any information about his father, mother or any other family members. His name was Hum Kwock On. I am wondering if anyone can tell me how to get started. I have his immigration papers coming in to Canada and paperwork from the Chinese Consulate stating he is of the Republic of China in 1918. There is Chinese writing on the back of both documents, but I don't speak or read Chinese so I don't know if that would give me more information.
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Post by laohuaqiao on Jul 26, 2014 2:30:51 GMT -5
Post a digital image of those documents here, either scanned or taken with digital camera, and we'll try to translate the info for you.
Does his tombstone have his Chinese name and other info in Chinese, such as his birthplace, on it? If so, take a digital photo of the headstone and post it here.
Are there anyone alive who might know where he came from? Were there any family associations he went to when he was alive? Some associations are regional associations which may indicate where he came from.
Having said that if the last name is Hum then it is probably 譚 and there is a village Long Kay 龍溪 in Kaiping 开平 with that surname. We need the Chinese characters to confirm.
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Post by Doug 周 on Jul 26, 2014 9:26:13 GMT -5
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Post by tkgraham on Jul 26, 2014 10:09:17 GMT -5
Thank you so much for your links and for your help. Our Chinese history has always been a bit of a black hole. My mother is in Canada right now and I will see what other information she might have or be able to obtain, but I know it's limited.   |
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Post by lachinatown on Jul 26, 2014 10:26:58 GMT -5
Looks like the name is 譚國安 Tan Guo an (Hom or Taam Gwok On Cantonese vs. your Hum Kwock On English spelling)
From: Kaiping 开平 (written in traditional Chinese 開平 on the certificate)
7th year, 8th month, 25 day (Chinese year) at 20
First photo the English and Chinese same.
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Post by Doug 周 on Jul 26, 2014 11:50:00 GMT -5
I assume you have probably researched your gf throughout Canada, and are completed in that part of your genealogy (actually genealogy is a never ending study) The next part is tracing your gf back to China. You have his given name. The next part is to find the other coordinate to locate his origins in China, his ancestral village. The eventual goal is to find his jiapu, the Holy Grail of Chinese genealogy chinese.rootswiki.legacy1.net/doku.php?id=references:documents:jiapu . lauhuaqiao mentioned a major resource: the gravestone of your gf; it is customary to write the ancestral village on the headstone. If your family cannot image the headstone, consider a request for findagrave.com . As you re-interview your elders, look particularly for Chinese characters. Finding your jiapu is easier if you have the Chinese given names of as many China born grand-uncles and grand relatives as possible. Post the images here for digitization and interpretation, or use the resources discussed elsewhere to digitize them yourself and translate them via online resources. Finally, our most expert genealogist of the 譚 clan is Henry Tom siyigenealogy.proboards.com/user/77 . His web site is dark and you should find his current email address in a search of his web postings. Chinese genealogist are divided into two groups: those who have their jiapu, and those who are looking for their jiapu. Let us know if we can help you further. |
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Post by Henry on Jul 26, 2014 13:47:51 GMT -5
My permanent email address is TomClan@Gmail.com Since moving to the Phoenix AZ area in 2010, I have not re-established my Tan website - there were just a handful of people interested in its contents.
Around 2010, the Taishan Tan ( Tom, Thom, Tam, Hom, Hum ) Association published a 2 volume ( 1,896 page ) genealogy bookset covering the Taishan area. The preceding Tan genealogy book, focused on Kaiping county was published in 1962 - unfortunately, this has not been updated - I will check with a friend, who would be the editor if they did. Then, there several other published Tan genealogy books which are more national in areal scope and would not have lineage details beyond Tan Hongzhi, who is the first Tan to come to Guangdong province in 960 AD. I believe that all Tan surname people originating from Guangdong province are descendants of Tan Hongzhi.
Henry Tom
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Post by tkgraham on Jul 26, 2014 19:36:52 GMT -5
I have found very little on my grandfather in Canada. I will continue to look for his history there, but also want to learn about the connections in China. My mother is in her 80s now and this is important to her. His letters from home and history were thrown away by my grandmother after his death, so we have limited data. I know he sent remittances home. He came to Canada with a cousin, but my mother and aunt only knew him by his nickname. I will start digging to see if I can find the genealogy bookset and will be downloading and reading as much as I can. I am sure I will have more questions once I am able to research further. I feel so thankful to have found all of you. Your help means so much to me!
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Post by douglaslam on Jul 27, 2014 4:56:13 GMT -5
Your grandfather and mine might have been shipmates on board the SS Empress of Asia. My grandfather's Head Tax Certificate which is in my keeping, was stamp-dated May 5, 2014. It is identical to the one you have uploaded
Don't stop. You'll get an answer from our expert panel. Members like Henry, laohuaqiao, lachinatown, Doug 周 Joe et al can guide or help you to that end. Can't wait for the happy outcome in your search.
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Post by Doug 周 on Jul 27, 2014 9:00:51 GMT -5
The chance of finding the jiapu in North America is very small. When he came to Canada, he was probably a sojourner and was not intending to immigrate to Canada. Most Chinese were planning to work in their destination country and send back money to their families. There was no need to bring their heritage jiapu bookset because they were planning to return to China. He probably fell in love with your grandmother. I understand your grandmother throwing out all his paperwork. At that time, it was more important to assimilate to Canadian culture; the Korean war was ending and China had fought the western powers to a stalemate; even Mao Zedong was destroying the antiquities and jiapus in China in his Cultural Revolution. Laohuaqiao has a good estimation on the ancestral village from the Village Database based on the phonetic spelling chinese.rootswiki.legacy1.net/doku.php?id=references:villages:village_database:hom#hoipingkaiping_開平开平 It will help you focus your search. As you look at your familial archives, select-copy-paste the presumed village characters and enlarge then print to paper. I then use this method to match the characters for what I am looking. If you have contacted Henry, his nephew still might be doing commissioned fieldwork in China. Henry and his nephew are well respected on this Forum. Here is my experience using Tan ShiCheng siyigenealogy.proboards.com/thread/1209Hope this information helps. I think you are almost there; just some crosschecking. |
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Post by lachinatown on Jul 27, 2014 11:29:40 GMT -5
Douglas, what do you mean May 5, 2014?
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Post by Henry on Jul 27, 2014 13:10:16 GMT -5
Greetings tkgraham,
The Tan genealogy books I noted are in Chinese and the 1962 three volume set ( traditional Chinese characters) is very difficult to find and the 2010 Tan two volume set ( simplified Chinese characters ) is only available in Taishan. I am not Chinese language literate, however, I know a few characters that I have learned during my Chinese genealogy research.
I checked the Tan genealogy book (1962) for Kaiping and it has lineages that would list your family lineage from Tan Hongzhi down to the generation of your great great grandfather, nonetheless, this would be very valuable to document your lineage from Tan Hongzhi, the first Tan ancestor to arrive in Guangdong province. I have researched and documented the Tan lineage that goes from Tan Hongzhi back to HuangDi, the Yellow Emperor ( 2697 BC - 2597 BC ). You would need the genealogy book from your ancestral village Long Kay 龍溪 in Kaiping 开平 to get the names of your grandfather and his ancestors to link into the overall Tan lineage. My nephew, Tan Shi Cheng, is still living in Taishan City - in the county next to Kaiping county where your ancestral village is located and he can locate your ancestral village and visit the village to do the research and try to get a copy of the village genealogy. But, he had told me that he will be moving to Hong Kong he near future. If you would like to use his genealogy research service, please contact me at " TomClan@Gmail.com ".
Henry
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Post by tkgraham on Jul 27, 2014 17:33:15 GMT -5
Both of our grandfathers received immigration papers from the Canadian Immigration Branch on 5 May 1914, not 2014.
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Post by roger on Jul 27, 2014 19:00:23 GMT -5
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Post by douglaslam on Jul 27, 2014 22:20:04 GMT -5
My apologies for the stuffed up. My grandfather's HTC was date-stamped May 5 1914, exactly one hundred years ago. tkgraham, your grandparents and my grandfather were shipmates. I wonder if they had struck up friendship and maintained some sort of communication during their time in Canada. I could not see any other date stamps on your grandfather's HTC, which was a quasi-travel document, presumably he had never left Canada even once for a trip home. Poor fellow. My grandfather returned to China a few times and fathered a family. siyigenealogy.proboards.com/thread/1667/eureka |
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