kjhong
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Post by kjhong on Aug 12, 2014 1:41:27 GMT -5
I'm have the names of my paternal and maternal grandfather's villages but haven't been able to pin point them.
Zeng Family Village On my father's side, our family name is Zeng/Tsang/Tseng's (曾). Our Zupu refers to the family settling in 上個曾邊, and my relatives say that they were from the 東安 oong on village (in Taishanese). I was able to find the following entries in the Siyi Village DB that that seem to be a good match:
Sheung Kok Heung (上閣鄉) Tsang Bin (曾邊) 22 03 30 N, 112 48 30 E Sheung Kok Heung (上閣鄉) Tung On (東安) 22 03 30 N, 112 48 30 E
In Google Maps, the coordinates for both villages point to the same field surrounded by a number of villages in the database, but none of which match our villages.
Chin Family Village On my mother's side, her maiden name was Chin/Chen/Chan (陈). In Siyi, there are entries for our Heung (六村鄉) but no entries for our village Cha Zhou (槎洲).
Luk Chuen Heung (六村鄉) 22 05 00 N, 112 48 30 E
In Google, there is a village with a similar name nearby Cuo Zhou (搓洲), which only differs by the left hand radical of the first character, 扌vs 木. I'm certain that the village name is written as 槎州 because my grandfather had all of his kids memorize how to write it and we have a copy of the book that he used to teach them the characters.
Any suggestions on where to take my search next?
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Post by laohuaqiao on Aug 12, 2014 7:05:45 GMT -5
kjhong, You are the 3rd person I know of whose ancestors came from the village Chazhou 槎洲. Sierratrout, who hasn't posted here for some time, made inquiries about her grandfather a few years back. siyigenealogy.proboards.com/thread/1203/grandfather-chinns-home-village-translationHanson Chan 陈天璇 has done his own research, has visited the village and posted his Chazhou genealogy tree here, www.chens.org.cn/sept2009/Article/ShowArticle.asp?ArticleID=2206Sierratrout touched on it and Hanson Chan gave an interesting and impressive account of the founder 陈遇夫 of the Chazhou. Yes, I think 槎洲 is 搓洲 in Google Maps. The names of the Zeng villages might have been changed, I can't find them even in present village listings. Sheung Kok Heung is about 3 miles or 4-5 km south of Chazhou. The current Secretary of Finance of Hong Kong, John Tsang claims his ancestry from this area. PS I did read your other post where you mentioned you mother descended from 陈遇夫's son 陈本深, the father-son scholar pair.
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kjhong
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Post by kjhong on Aug 12, 2014 16:12:31 GMT -5
Thanks, laohuaqiao. I've seen some of the work from Hanson Chan on chens.org.cn. He and I are descendants two different sons of 陈本深. I'll have to look at his article in more detail. Notably he's also placed the genealogies for all of 陈本深's 10 sons on chens.org.cn as well. I remember an uncle who had visited our village telling me that a gate had been erected in honor of two scholars in our family. Most likely the father-son scholar pair that you mention. I forget if had been torn down or recently replaced.
I'll keep digging around for info on the Zeng side.
Cheers, Ken
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Post by laohuaqiao on Aug 12, 2014 18:11:31 GMT -5
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kjhong
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Post by kjhong on Aug 13, 2014 0:33:21 GMT -5
One of my Uncles visited Chazhou in the mid-1930's and has a photo of the stone gate as well. I'll have to ask him for a copy, as well as addresses, contacts, and photos from any more recent trips.
I did notice that Hanson had a slightly different characters for my grandfather. He also had a granduncle that wasn't in our zupu (百喜). My grandmother said that there might have been one or two other brothers that we didn't know about. So, that was a nice find.
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Post by laohuaqiao on Aug 14, 2014 22:08:37 GMT -5
A brief description on life and work of 陈遇夫, baike.baidu.com/view/956380.htmIn section 2, it mentioned during the reign of Qing emperor Kangxi, in the year 1664, due to the Great Evacuation or Great Coastal Evacuation 海迁界, his parents and he were forced to leave their village in 六村 and moved to Taishan county seat 台城镇. His parents died from small pox shortly after and he was brought up by his older sister who married a Mei/Mui/Moy 梅 of Duanfen 端芬. I read elsewhere that every applicant for the scholar exams needed a letter of introduction from his home village, in order to obtain the letter 陈遇夫 had to change his surname to 梅, thus the name in government records who had top rank results in the Guangdong provincial exam was 梅遇夫. Later he took back the Chen name and founded the Chazhou village in Liucun. The Great Coastal Evacuation 1661-1669 was order given by the Qing emperor to clear all inhabitants from land within 50 li (25 km) of China's eastern and southern coast, in order to defend against attacks from remains of Ming dynasty supporters, mainly based in Taiwan. The evacuation had a lasting effect on the people of the coastal regions. Among the first people to move into the vacated regions in southern Guangdong after the order was rescinded were the Hakka people. This was true in Taishan, Zhongshan, Hong Kong, etc. Then the "locals" started to move back to their ancestral villages. As the population of the "locals" and Hakkas grew they disputed over land for living and farming. By early 1800s, these disputes became deadly, armed conflicts. By the time gold was discovered in California, people were eager to leave the conflicts in Taishan, as much as being lured by the promise of fortune. Liucun must have been the center where many of the skirmishes took place, hence today many, like you, descendents of Liucun, are in the US. The Hakka is still spoken in the town south of Doushan(town to which Liucun belongs), Chixi 赤溪.
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kjhong
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Post by kjhong on Aug 20, 2014 11:41:56 GMT -5
Here are my conclusions about my grandfathers' villages:
Zeng Family Village (曾) According to an uncle and aunt, Dong'an (東安) has been incorporated in the Qi Le (其樂) 22°02'26.4"N 112°49'50.4"E. My uncle said that my grandfather's house is still standing.
Chin Family Village(陳) Based on the discussion above and Hanson Chan's description of the village, I'm confident that maternal grandfather's village Cha Zhou (槎州)is labeled as Cuo Zhou (搓洲) in Google Maps 22°04'57.1"N 112°48'14.6"E.
Hanson Chan's blog post (blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_6206915901012gnl.html) describing the old village gate and the surroundings mentions that the ancestral hall was converted into the Boxing Elementary School (伯興小學)after liberation. In Google Maps, the elementary school is adjacent to "Cuo Zhou".
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Post by lachinatown on Aug 20, 2014 16:40:01 GMT -5
Very good kjhong. So you are saying both villages are in the Doushan 斗山 town; and the Dongan 東安 in Chonglou 冲蒌 town (North of Doushan) is not your village.
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kjhong
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Post by kjhong on Aug 21, 2014 0:36:21 GMT -5
Hi Lachinatown, Yes, both villages are close to Doushan 斗山. There is Dong'an 東安 a farther north near Liao Tian 廖田 and to the south near Wu cun 鄔村. But the Doushan area is where the Siyi Village Database places the Taishan branch of the Zeng family. Furthermore, my uncle who has been to our village Dong'an within the past few decades confirmed that it is now considered part of Kay Lok (Qi Le 其樂).
One of my aunts commented that it was such a coincidence that my mother and father would meet in the US but be from villages just a few miles (3) apart. As it turns out, my ancestors married women from the Chin family quite often. So, perhaps it was destiny, not coincidence. =)
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Post by lachinatown on Aug 21, 2014 10:47:35 GMT -5
kjhong, we are from the same area. Your family is south of Taicheng, and our family is north of Taicheng, pretty much in a straight line. I think you said you are in Northern California, and I am in Southern California.
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kjhong
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Post by kjhong on Aug 21, 2014 19:48:47 GMT -5
lachinatown, ha, our families switched when they moved to California.
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Post by lachinatown on Aug 22, 2014 17:27:12 GMT -5
We do have relatives in the San Francisco area.
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kjhong
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Post by kjhong on Aug 22, 2014 17:46:37 GMT -5
Likewise, I have an uncle and cousins North of LA.
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Post by mhyee on Sept 26, 2014 14:42:34 GMT -5
There is a Taishan daily paper (Nandu) that for the last few years, has done a series of articles on lineages and surnames in Taishan. There is one roughly translated as " Zeng lineage magazine (Sanxing) is 100 years old but the Zengs in Taishan have existed for 600 years" See nandu.oeeee.com/nis/201303/15/24742.htmlThis article, in simplified Chinese might help your search as it concerns the Zeng from Zengbian xiang. As for your ancestral village, this is what I suggest. I think the current village you are looking for is Dongbian village. I believe that the villages of Dongan and Zengbian (old) village were combined to form Dongbian. As such it is an abbreviation of Dongan-Zengbian village and in English would look more like Dong-Bian village.
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Post by rd228485forum on Jan 20, 2020 19:30:30 GMT -5
Hello, I am a Zeng also ... and my grandfather and father were from 上個曾邊. They were from Wo Lok village. Is it possible for me to get a copy of your Zupu and see if my family is in it? Or where I can get a copy? How did you go about getting your copy? I am US born and have only a little Chinese language capability. BTW, I am retired living in the Bay Area. I would appreciate any help you can give. I have attached a list of b'days for my father and his siblings, all born in Wo Lok in the early 1900s. Is it possible for you to see if they are listed? Many thanks in advance. Zeng Birth Dates_Chinese.pdf (116.14 KB)
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