Looking for Great-Grandfather in Shek Doi (Duanfen, Taishan)

[kjhong]

I've been blessed to have Zupu's for both my paternal and maternal grandfathers and have been able to make incredible progress tracing their ancestors sitting in front of my computer. However, I recently received information about my maternal grandmother's family from an English translation of her marriage certificate.  It lists her pedigree going back to her 2nd great-grandfather. Following up on this information presents more of a challenge.

I have the following information about my grandmother:

Surname: Tso (pinyin: Cáo 曹）
Name: Mee Shew (Měi Xiù 美秀)
Date of Birth: 9/22/1917 (#2 daughter)

Father: TSO Wah Sun                              Wife: Yow Shee
Grandfather: TSO Bing Bew                      Wife: I Shee
Great Grandfather: TSO Goon Nging          Wife: Wah Shee
2nd Great Grandfather: TSO Nguey Yee     Wife: Moy Shee
[My mother is searching for the original marriage certificate in Chinese, and checking with my grandmother's nephew to see if he can write down some of the names for us.]

Ancestral Village: Shek Doi or Awn-Foon, in Toisan (廣東省台山縣) [According to an uncle whose been back to my grandfather's village, Awn-Foon is Duanfen 端芬 in Mandarin. From Google maps, Shek Doi may be 石咀村 Shizui Cun, which is about a mile from Duanfen. The Siyi village database also shows that there were a cluster of 曹 family villages in this area.]

Beyond getting the Chinese names, I was hoping to get some advice on what to do next.

[Doug 周]

Ken,

Once you get as many Chinese characters as possible (including grand uncles), then field work is your next step to find the existence of a zupu/jiapu amongst village elders. Contact Henry ^click to commission his nephew Tan ShiCheng, since this region is in his hometown. See How I recently obtained my jiapu ^click

Doug

[kjhong]

Doug,
Thanks for the link. I especially liked the comments about etiquette when dealing with the interaction of relatives in China and folks like Henry's nephew.

With luck, we'll be able to get more names in Chinese soon.

Ken

[kjhong]

We found the original marriage certificate. Here are the names in Chinese:

Surname: Tso (pinyin: Cáo 曹）
Name: Mee Shew (Měi Xiù 美秀)
Date of Birth: 9/22/1917 (#2 daughter)

Father: TSO Wah Sun (Cáo Huáshēn 曹華申)
Mother: Yow Shee (Qiū Shì 丘氏)

--Grandfather: TSO Bing Bew (Cáo Bǐngbiǎo 曹秉表)
   Grandmother: I Shee (Dài Shì 戴氏)

----Great Grandfather: TSO Goon Nging (Cáo Jūnyíng 曹君盈)
     Great Grandmother: Wah Shee (Huá Shì 華氏)

------2nd Great Grandfather: TSO Nguey Yee (Cáo Wèiyī 曹魏伊)
        2nd Great Grandmother: Moy Shee (Méi Shì 梅氏)

Ancestral Village: Shek Doi 石嘴 Shízuǐ, Taishan, Guangdong

[Doug 周]

Nice archaeological work. With that much information, your field work should be a cinch. I hope the zupu still exits.

I did not know the marriage certificates contain that much information. Please post an image of the certificate.

Let us know in the future what pathway you will choose to look for a jiapu/zupu. (and the outcome).

[kjhong]

The certificate includes two large 3 foot pieces of layered paper, one for my grandmother and one for my grandfather. We're trying to figure out the best way to copy/digitize them.

Here's preliminary photo of my grandmother's side of the family:



Note that the photo doesn't included the "cover section" to the right which also has some writing.

[lachinatown]

Didn't know they have certificates.

[Doug 周]

ditto

I also never knew there were marriage certificates. I am glad lachnatown said it first . Makes me want to research more. Anyone else with more insight? kjhong, did your grandparents have more info?

Something else for which genealogist need to hunt during their heritage research work.

[FayChee]

Hi Kjhong,

What I do with large oversized documents, is to photograph it in overlapping sections at high resolution and without a flash (causes glare). I then upload the photos to my computer and re-assemble them using Adobe Photoshop, then save the complete work to a memory card or DVD, from which it can be printed as many times as you please.....not to mention saved forever.

If you cannot do this, I will be happy to do it if you upload the photos here or email them to me.

Fay Chee

[kjhong]

FayChee, Thanks for the suggestion.

Doug, lachinatown, I don't know if this is a formal marriage certificate. Perhaps it's more of a formal pedigree created at the time of marriage. Here's a translation of both pages that I think was made when my grandmother was applying for US citizenship:



This is the document that sent me off looking for the original Chinese version.

[Doug 周]

Regardless of whether this document is a governmental official certificate, it is a great discovery of the celebration of a 1936 wedding. The content is rich with family heritage history.

In my ignorance, I have never seen an official marriage certificate in China. Despite being an unadulterated ABC, throughout the short years of studying Chinese genealogy, I have never heard of anyone searching for such official marriage document from either the Republic period nor Qing dynasty. By no means does that indicate its non-existence. Maybe someone more literate in the period culture can advise.

The 3 foot size is correct for a banner made up for display at a wedding ceremony or feast. It would be large enough for all to see and celebrate the lineage of the two families whose descendants are joining in matrimony. A quick review of Rosemary Gong's (non definitive) Good Luck Life _{ISBN-10: 0060735368} did not indicate a recommendation for a similar banner in her wedding chapter. It would be nice to know what is written on the "cover section" on the right. Maybe that information could have more trappings of officialdom.

The title Marriage Certificate (Chin) may need re-examination and/or re-translation. Maybe lachinatown can look at those characters which were interpreted into English as "Marriage Certificate (Chin)" and render us an opinion.

Thanks kjhong for sharing your discovery and igniting this discussion.

[lachinatown]

Good to see Fay Chee back.

[kjhong]

Using the method suggested by Fay Chee, I successfully digitized the following wedding documents for my maternal grandparents.  Lachinatown, can you make sense of this?

Envelope（榮封）:


Document with my grandmother's pedigree（五世其昌  庚㞼）:


Document with my grandfather's pedigree （五世其昌 庚譜）:

[Henry]

Dear Colleagues,

Douglas Lam is currently in the Taishan area and had trouble trying to post the following report - so, he asked me to do it for him.

Henry Tom



" October 27, was a red letter day as far as genealogy search goes. It has to be said I promised to look into Ken, alias kjhong's mother's village in Duanfen and the possibility of acquiring a zupu if circumstances permitted.

The day started ordinarily enough. After breakfast. we set off for Foshan Bus Termius and made our way for Taicheng. The fare was 55 RMB, much of the travel was on tollways, and the journey took about an hour and forty mins. As soon as we got to Taicheng, I enquired about a connecting service to Duanfen and Ken's village. The driver set us down at a village he thought was closest to Ken's. The fare was 8 RMB which was a good indication of the distance involved.

It was lunch time when we got off the bus. There was no point to press on because the people drop everything for their midday meal. We walked into the village, and the first man we stopped to ask for direction and a place to eat was the best thing to happen on my current trip to China. Not only did he point us to a village restaurant, but also accepted my invitation to join us to lunch.

We hit off like old friends. The man is a retiree, from a Mei / Mui family. The Mei / Mui families are very prominent in Duanfen. He told me it wasn't easy to point us to Ken's village. We shall see later. After lunch, we went to Mr.Mui's street level rented space. It is suitable as a shop, but the decreasing population and traffic diversion brought on the decline. He has traditional village homes, a flat, and the rented space is for easy access. He took with him a big thermos of tea.

We set off in his small car, and in mins. we were in this famous landmark which was made famous as setting in films and TV dramas. image.baidu.com/i?tn=baiduimage&ipn=r&ct=201326592&nc=1&lm=-1&cl=2&ie=utf-8&word=端芬 镇&ie=utf-8&istype=2&fm=se0 It was like a time warp, walking into the past amongst the old buildings of East and West architecture. Most of the buildings are unoccupied,tourists come by the busload everyday. At the time there was a group of local tourists. On weekends, hordes would descend from Hong Kong and Macau.

Next, we went to Ken's village. It isn't far but hard to get to because there is just a narrow roadway which permits only a small car to travel in one direction. There is no public transport. Mr. Mui told me even the motorcycle taxi operators would have difficulty finding it. Mr.Mui, being a well known local identity, the three of us were warmly welcomed by the villagers. The village has at the most twenty families remaining, mostly older women and a few men. There are rows of traditional village homes of solid construction, a reflection of the menfolk who went abroad to the Gold Moutain. One old woman in her late 90s was brought out, but she could not recall ever knowing Ken's mother.

Ken, was your mother born in the village or did she leave at a young age? The villagers and Mr. Mui talked in Toishanese which I could not fully comprehend. The villagers then led us to a neglected home, with a section in danger of collapsing. They were sure it was Ken's mother's ancestral home. There are houses with just the shell or outline visible because the bricks were sold for food during Mao's reign. It is sad.

Next, we sat and talked in the shade for a long time next to the village gateway, It was a peaceful scene watching the rice stalks swaying in the cool breeze and drinking tea. We emptied the thermos before Mr. Mui took us to another village which also has a row of houses very similar to those in Duanfen town. It is a well kept secret. It was a stunning sight and something completely unexpected.

I have to be honoest, without Mr. Mui, I would have hit the wall and beat a hasty retreat. Even if by luck I had found the village, the villagers would certainly not warm to me without Mr. Mui. And how was I to find my way out because there is no public transport? In all,Mr. Mui spent several hours with us and he wouldn't even accept my offer for fuel cost.

Ken, do make an effort to see Duanfen and your mother's paternal home. It would be a rewarding experience. I'd call Mr. Mui ahead to welcome you. He is a unique individual, so generous in spirit, kind, hospitable, enthusiastic and helpful in every way. He insisited it was affinity that brought us together, the Buddism and Taoism concept of '' yuen'' that link unlikely people together. I agree.

Photos with my further reports back in Sydney."

[kjhong]

Henry,
Thank you for posting Douglas' story.

Douglas,
It wonderful that you were able to hit it off so well with Mr. Mui. I can see why you enjoy traveling to China so much.

My grandmother was born in Shek Doi/Shu Zui in 1917 and was married to my grandfather in 1936 after which they left for the US. So, she would have been 97 this year and similar in age to the lady from the village you visited.

Safe travels!

-Ken