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Post by kevin on Mar 17, 2015 10:39:44 GMT -5
Hi, I was hoping that somebody may be able to help me. I am looking for the Family Totem and any other information on the Kong family. I am marrying a Kong and want to surprise her, as she hasn't got a lot of information on the family. Can anyone help me with this?
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Post by lachinatown on Mar 17, 2015 12:31:27 GMT -5
 Third down from right is for Sun. Can't find one for Kong. Maybe philiptancl can help. |
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liuyao
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Geni is the future!
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Post by liuyao on Mar 17, 2015 21:28:26 GMT -5
Totems don't exist in China. I've no idea where those images came from, most likely 20-th century imagination. Being a Kong, she should be very proud as a male-line descendant of Confucius. If anything, the character Kong in seal script would be an equivalent to a totem. commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:%E5%AD%94-seal.svgYou should encourage her to look into her family history. The Kongs have the most reliable, longest running records, and it shouldn't be too hard. |
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Post by Doug 周 on Mar 18, 2015 10:19:47 GMT -5
Totems don't exist in China. I've no idea where those images came from, most likely 20-th century imagination.
... The non existence of totems goes against a common wisdom on this genealogy group. I recall seeing totem images on unrendered pages of zupu’s. Most of the forum’s ‘proof of concept’ is based on English based Chinese genealogy references. One purpose of this forum is to stimulate intellectual conversations about not only mundane but also controversial higher level genealogical ideas (IMO). I particularly enjoy it when in this forum discusses academically challenging issues. I believe we are all mature enough to investigate controversies. Are the totem origins from late Qing or Republic era Chinese genealogist who designed these images to ‘compete’ with European coat of arms? liuyao is an active Chinese literate genealogist and is finishing his post-graduate studies at an American university. In no means is this request an attempt to disparage any Forum members. However, as an intellectual endeavor, can the Forum members research the origins of these totems? Those who can read and type Chinese research hopefully will inquire with mainland genealogy groups and reference sites about these totems. Solid references (Chinese or English) should help our group determine the origins of these totems. Respectfully, Doug 周 |
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liuyao
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Post by liuyao on Mar 18, 2015 17:06:19 GMT -5
Sorry I didn't mean to sound dismissive, and I am by no means a specialist (my field of study is entirely unrelated).
I would be happy to see an image of a "totem" from a genealogy book the next time you run into one.
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Post by lachinatown on Mar 18, 2015 17:32:12 GMT -5
Is this what you mean Doug?   |
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liuyao
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Geni is the future!
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Post by liuyao on Mar 18, 2015 18:06:43 GMT -5
Interesting. I just did a search on the "Chinese wikipedia" (which is far less credible), and in there it says that some of them were created by an artist by the name of Wang Dayou. He himself explicitly stated that it was "a creative art, not based on scientific evidence." baike.baidu.com/view/632795.htm |
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Post by LJ on Mar 18, 2015 21:15:47 GMT -5
Totems don't exist in China. I've no idea where those images came from, most likely 20-th century imagination.
... The non existence of totems goes against a common wisdom on this genealogy group. I recall seeing totem images on unrendered pages of zupu’s. Most of the forum’s ‘proof of concept’ is based on English based Chinese genealogy references. One purpose of this forum is to stimulate intellectual conversations about not only mundane but also controversial higher level genealogical ideas (IMO). I particularly enjoy it when in this forum discusses academically challenging issues. I believe we are all mature enough to investigate controversies. Are the totem origins from late Qing or Republic era Chinese genealogist who designed these images to ‘compete’ with European coat of arms? liuyao is an active Chinese literate genealogist and is finishing his post-graduate studies at an American university. In no means is this request an attempt to disparage any Forum members. However, as an intellectual endeavor, can the Forum members research the origins of these totems? Those who can read and type Chinese research hopefully will inquire with mainland genealogy groups and reference sites about these totems. Solid references (Chinese or English) should help our group determine the origins of these totems. Respectfully, Doug 周 Hi Doug, I thrive on intellectual endeavors. For this particular endeavor to research the origins of totems in China, we first need to do the following: - Determine what a totem is
- Determine if totems ever existed in China
Best regards, LJeung |
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Post by FayChee on Mar 18, 2015 23:08:54 GMT -5
I'm not sure if this is what everyone is referring to, but I just Googled "Chinese Totem" and this is one link: www.chinaculture.org/chineseway/2010-08/24/content_392025.htmChinese Totem The totem, a symbol of the relatives, ancestors or patron saints of a group, mainly in order to distinguish one group from another, is the earliest phenomenon of cultural history. Due to the underdeveloped nature of early civilization, ignorant, primitive people believed that certain natural objects or animated creatures with a blood connection to their ethnic heritage could be selected as totems. Thus, using totems to explain or to record myths, ethnic customs and historical affairs became acceptable in primitive times. In the ancient culture and folklore of China, there are countless materials pertaining to totems. “Kirin, Phoenix, Turtle, Dragon,” which was recorded in “The Book of Rites,” are actually the most famous totems used by our ancestors. ”Phoenix is the totem of Yin and Dragon is the counterpart of Xia” said by Guo Moruo (A famous writer and palywriter in modern China) in his passage --- “The Research of paintings in Late Zhou (770B.C.-256B.C).” However, as the symbol of one group and the worshiped object of one Nation, totem has a big impact on the culture and the psychology of one Nation. Chinese, the descendents of Xia, choose the powerful Dragon as its totem. So there are many words and idioms and stories related to Dragon, what’s more, emperor was believed as the avatar of Dragon during the ancient times, for instance, Qin Shihuang (The first emperor in the Qin Dynasty) boasted that he was the “Ancestor of Dragon.” Qin Shihuang Besides, there are many totems that derived from the origin of clans. There is a legend within Hun which is about wolf, according to ”Wei Guo Records,” the king of Hun had two daughters whom were quite gracious and pretty and even been regarded as the Gods of Hun. One day, the King said: “How can I get such beautiful daughters married with human being? I will let them go with God,” so he constructed a high-profile and let his daughters stand on it. “God, please come and take them away!” he shouted at the heaven. Four years later, an old wolf came here, waiting and howling day and night. The younger girl said to it: “My father got us here and marry us with Gods. It must be the God’s intention to send the wolf here.” Then she got down the profile and married with it. Afterwards, the descendents became more and more and were all good at singing and howling in the way that the wolf did. Consequently, wolf becomes the totem of Hun. In addition, there are other ethnic groups and clans that use the Chinese Zodiac as totems. Here are some examples: The Tiger Clan in Bai ethnic group believes that the white tiger is their ancestor. They are tigerish but will not hurt them. They should choose the day of the tiger to go outside and deem that only by doing this can be prayed. Meanwhile, people who want to come back should select the right day, or they will get in trouble. However, the Chicken Clan in Bai ethnic group deems that their ancestor was born by the JinHua chicken and they thought that the rooster could foretell the future and pray for them. So when they are migrating, there is always a rooster on the top of their back baskets and they will settle down in the direction of the chicken’s clucking. The clan of Naxi chooses Oxen as their ancestor. In a book they wrote, it proscribed that Oxen was born in the ocean with its horn penetrating into the sky and its hoof breaking into the ground but was finally killed by the seven brothers and sisters, then they offered its head to Heavens, skin to Earth, muscles to Soil, bones to Stone, ribs to Mountains, blood to River, lungs to Sun, liver to Moon, intestine to Roads, tail to Trees and wool to Flowers and Grass. As a result, the world was born. There’s also another ethnic group that admires Oxen very much---Bouyei. According to the legend, when the ancestors of Bouyei fled away from the arid land, they suddenly found an ox nodding and swaying its tail towards them, so they followed the hint and crossed a mountain with it and was saved by finding the springs. What’s more, Oxen is the symbol of power and strength in the eye of Bouyei. In order to appreciate the Oxen, the ancestor of Bouyei fixed Apr.8th in the lunar month as the “King of the Oxen Festival” and bathed it with Liquidambar Leaves and fed it with rice. Besides, Bouyei designs its badge by combining the Oxen with the “Da Nan Bamboo” together. Apart from the blood connection with the ethnic heritage, there is another way to select totem, such as reliance. The nomadic tribe and hunters are used to living with horse, nearly all their activities rely on it. In the Daur ethnic group, people call horse ”Wen Gu” and regard it as the God of its tribe, women are forbidden to riding with it, and it can go anywhere and bite anything it like, even the farmland. As a matter of fact, the word ‘Totem,’ which originated in an Indian language in South America, is a foreign word and was translated according to its pronunciation. Though it’s impossible to find the word in the Chinese ancient books, historical recordings and the admiration to totems are abundant in the books. However, nowadays totem has changed from the ancient badge symbolizing a group’s relatives, spirits and Gods into an advertisement propagating activities or an adornment decorating houses or cars. |
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Post by kevin on Mar 19, 2015 1:10:56 GMT -5
Thank you very much lachinatown, Doug, liuyao and FayChee. I did come across the links to Family History in China as you have posted and they were interesting but I was unaware that the 'Kong' Family name was derived from Confucious. Thanks for that liuyao. The only other information that we have is the Grandparents that came from China to Australia were Harry and Ellan Kong and had children Barry Kong and Lynnette Kong. Harry may have been a Fighter Pilot in the war on Pearl Harbor but we are unsure of this fact. Thank you all for your contribution. I am unsure though as to where to go from here, as I have never tried to track down Family History/Family Trees before. Are there any suggestions on the best way to uncover this lineage?
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liuyao
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Geni is the future!
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Post by liuyao on Mar 20, 2015 23:25:22 GMT -5
Hi Kevin, I'm confused if the Kongs are from Australia or the US. I did find one on FindAGrave, www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=7596915 see if the dates sound reasonable. It does remind me that Kong does not necessarily mean 孔, the surname of Confucius. This Barry Kong, for instance, is a 江. That's why Doug has always emphasized the importance of getting a photo of the tombstone which bears Chinese characters. See his suggestions and explanations in other threads. |
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Post by Doug 周 on Mar 25, 2015 11:19:51 GMT -5
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