Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2015 16:30:14 GMT -5
Hi all, I know there are words for great-grandparents on maternal and paternal sides (bak poh, bak gung 白婆,白公) and (chiek po, chiek gung 赤婆,赤公). Does anybody know know the words for great-great parents? Here are the ones I am seeking: Paternal Grandmother' mother's parents Paternal Grandfather's father's parents Maternal Grandfather's father's parents Maternal Grandmother's father's parents Thanks to anybody who can help! (Credit to laohuaqiao for the Great-Grandparents characters) ( x) |
|
liuyao
Member
Geni is the future!
Posts: 43 
|
Post by liuyao on Oct 4, 2015 17:58:29 GMT -5
Generally speaking, the Chinese language tends to list out names in conjunction (with a specific order), instead of having a generic name for something.
Parents = 父母, literally father and mother;
siblings = 兄弟姐妹, literally older brother, younger brother, older sister, younger sister;
children = 子女, literally son and daughter;
descendants = 子孫, literally son and grandson (no plurals in Chinese), but could denote all descendants by extension;
couple = 夫妻 or 夫婦, literally husband and wife
relatives = 親戚, literally relatives by blood and by marriage
and it's not just genealogical terminology, but a general phenomenon in the Chinese language (except some modern Chinese which is influenced by Western languages).
So for your cases, it'd be simply putting 公 and 婆 together (in this order): 白公婆 and 赤公婆 in your two cases.
By the way, I believe laohuaqiao's terminology is only for Taishan dialect. I'm curious to know if any other dialects have such sophisticated terminology. (None exists in Beijing dialect or the official written script other than the generic 外 prefix for anyone not in the strictly paternal line.)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2015 19:01:15 GMT -5
Thank you so much, luiyao! That's a very interesting bit about the names in conjunction. I've never heard of that before in any other languages, which is interesting. I agree about the Taishan Dialect being different in terms of specifics as compared to mandarin's " 外" word. The latter is also similar in Korean (just a side note): - " When addressing the maternal side of the family, i.e. your grandparents and great-grandparents on the mother’s side, the prefix oe- (외) – pronounced ‘weh’ – is added, for example oejungjobonim (외증조부모님) and oejobumonim (외증조부모님)." Taken from thetalkingcupboard.com/2013/05/11/korean-family-and-kinship-terms/- |
|
|
|
Post by philiptancl on Oct 5, 2015 23:44:55 GMT -5
In the Min Nan (閩南) dialect from Yongchun (永春) County, Fujian (福建) Province where my grandfather originated from, we use the prefix “外” when addressing maternal grandparents.
I seem to notice that there are a few differences in practice compared with those of Guangdong (廣東):
1. When paying respect to ancestors or those deceased, we use only two joss sticks. Using three joss sticks is when we pay respect to deities.
2. When making offerings to ancestors, we never ever use duck. It seems to be a taboo to do so.
3. Using steamed/boiled chicken as offering to ancestor, the chicken would be cut into four quarters. For deities, the chicken would be whole.
|
|
|
|
Post by helen on Oct 6, 2015 0:33:13 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by Patrick on Oct 6, 2015 2:52:38 GMT -5
Hello philiptancl !
According to French administration of New Caledonia, my Chinese ancestor was born in Amoy in 1831. So, I suppose he spoke Amoy language. (廈門話 ?)
Is Min Nan (閩南) dialect quite different in Yongchun (永春) County ?
Patrick.
|
|
|
|
Post by philiptancl on Oct 6, 2015 7:58:58 GMT -5
Hi Patrick,
Yes people from the Xiamen (Amoy) speak the same Min Nan dialect.
Is your surname is Lim/Lin (林)? On April 2013 with my first cousin once removed Stephen Lim, I had visited the grave of the progenitor 林禄公（289AD-356AD）of Lim in Fujian. His grave is at 惠安泉港区涂岒镇九龙岗 and the temple dedicated to him is just beside the grave. If is your surname is Lim, it is possible you are descended from one of the “nine dragons”.
|
|
|
|
Post by tyuti1668 on Oct 7, 2015 3:28:38 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by Patrick on Oct 7, 2015 7:51:56 GMT -5
Hi philiptancl !
My surname is a French one.
But I have a Chinese great-great-grandfather and I try to know more about my Chinese origins.
My great-great-grandfather was born in Amoy. (about 1831) His father was called Jo and his mother was called Bee. (Unknown period from 1831 to 1843.)
He was in New Zealand in 1843 (12 years old) : He was recruited in Wellington, New Zeland as a colonist for Aneityum, New Hebrides (Vanuatu now) by captain James Paddon.
Then, my great-great-grandfather arrived in New Caledonia in 1848 with captain James Paddon. (New Caledonia became French in 1853) He died in Nouméa, New Caledonia in 1883.
He was called Jemmy Song. But what do you think about the Chinese characters he wrote in his signature ? I suppose his surname was rather Lin.
Patrick.
|
|
|
|
Post by philiptancl on Oct 7, 2015 10:45:03 GMT -5
Hi Patrick,
The Chinese character of your great-great-grandfather’s signature appears to be written as “林双”. If so, his surname could be construed to be Lim/Lin (林). That was why I asked whether your surname is Lim. If “Song” is his surname that seems to suggest from his Romanized signature, the Chinese character for the surname could be “宋”. It would sound as “Song” when spoken in Min Nan language. “双” is the simplified Chinese character for the traditional Chinese character “雙”. If you said your grandfather was born about 1831, I would think simplified Chinese could not be in existence then. Even if you know the Chinese characters for your ancestor(s), just knowing that he was born in Amoy (also known as Xiamen) would be a near impossible task of locating your ancestral records without narrowing down further the particularly location where your great-great-grandfather was from. This is because Xiamen is a big city managed as a sub-provincial covering the districts of Huli (湖裡), Siming (思明), Jimei (集美), Tong'an (同安), Haicang (海滄) and Xiang'an (翔安).
Philip
|
|
|
|
Post by tyuti1668 on Oct 7, 2015 15:55:37 GMT -5
...The Chinese character of your great-great-grandfather’s signature appears to be written as “林双”...If you said your grandfather was born about 1831, I would think simplified Chinese could not be in existence then. Less educated tends to write the colloquial form. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kangxi_Dictionary records that [双] tool.httpcn.com/Html/KangXi/22/PWCQILUYPWUYKOCC.shtmlbtw [林/Lim] is the 2nd surname among Hokkien speaker, w/o further info it's VERY difficult to find the answer. Learn some Hokkien in spare time maybe easier than finding the birthplace... |
|
|
|
Post by Patrick on Oct 8, 2015 9:55:38 GMT -5
Hello philiptancl and tyuti1668 !
Thanks to both of you !
Here is the picture of my great-great-grandfather.
Patrick |
|
|
|
Post by hoipingchow on Oct 14, 2015 19:06:50 GMT -5
From your email, I think you are from Hoi Ping or Toy San.
My parents are from Hoi Ping.
My paternal gf was addressed as ye-ye, my paternal ggf bak gung, my paternal gggf was chek gung.
My maternal side is very small and my gf passed away before I was born. I address my maternal gm as hoo (po in Cantonese), my kids were told to address her as bak hoo. My cousin's kids were told to address her (great grands from the grandson with the family name) as tai po. My aunt by marriage is from HK so that is the Cantonese way but my mom said they should address her as bak hoo too.
It doesn't seem to be as clear the relationship (paternal or maternal) once we got passed gf and gm. |
|
