Mexican Looking for Chinese Ancestor

[marlee]

Hi There 

Firs of all I would like to say thank you in advance for whoever takes the time to read this random messages. I'm Mexican but my great grand father was born in China I believed it may have been around 1889 not quite sure about it. My great grand father came to Mexico and got married to my Mexican great grand mother. They had kids over here, He unfortunately died when my grand-mother was 5 years old and seems like she didn't know much about him for obvious reasons. Pretty much non one in the family knows anything about him. So far the only information I know for sure is that his name was Lee Cam and he might have been from Guangdong (Canton). This is according to my grand mother's brother birth certificate. According to my grandma, Both of them her brother and her, were registered with both of my great grandfather (last) names as he was planning to take them to China. He took the name of Ignacio Ley Cam once in Mexico but there is not official papers to proved it. 
I can provided my grandma's brother birth certificate however it is in Spanish so not sure of how much use it could. 

I'm clear this may be a pretty much an impossible mission but I would to figure it out to understand my heritage. At this stage I'm based in New Zealand but I can ask relative in Mexico to search more information if needed. 

So I guess my question is ....Is there away I can trace by name and location this person?

Thank you in advanced! 

[lachinatown]

marlee, any Chinese characters and name of the village where he came from would greatly help. Canton is a big area in South China.

[marlee]

Nothing lachinatown seems like it is going to be impossible....

[Doug 周]

Marlee,

Before you give you, have you interviewed your elders? They can give you insight which distant relative and acquaintances to interview further.

I am not familiar with Mexican immigration documents. Are there Chinese characters? Do you know which ship your elders entered Mexico? Are there ship manifest or passenger logs with your ancestor's signatures in Chinese?

Have you've located the grave stones of your ancestors? Chinese names and villages are frequently inscribed in the headstones.

Any document or artifacts with Chinese characters are valuable. Wedding invitations, funeral announcements, Chinese association records where funeral insurance might be recorded, backs of photographs, dishes and gifts with names, etc. Being in New Zealand makes your personal search all that harder.

Most all this searching is standard genealogy research. There are resources on Mexican genealogy. The goal to this searching is to discover Chinese characters. However, you should already have a grasp of your lineage from your interviews. It is from that knowledge base that you know where to start your secondary and tertiary interviews.

[helen]

Hello from one Kiwi to another. Looks like you will have a mission - looking at the history of migration to Mexico in those early days. Are there any headstones that you have access to? Even a photo of your GGF? What was his occupation? I know you don't have much at this stage, but it would be interesting to see if there were any Chinese organisations in the area that your Grand Mother was born


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_immigration_to_Mexico
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chinese_in_Mexico
www.uapress.arizona.edu/Books/bid2249.htm

[marlee]

Hi Helen!! 

Thank you so much I have been looking at the information in wikipedia. I know his occupation was Agriculture (farmer) and I do have a picture which is attached and I have one birth certificate of my grandmother's brother. 

I haven't been able to find any Chinese association in Mexico tho

Attachments:

[marlee]

Hi Dough 

My Grandmother who is the only one left doesn't know much, she is not almost in vegetative state and she lost her memory. I know her dad (my great grand father) died when she was 5, at a certain point they lost all his papers in a flood ...SO far I haven't seen any chinese character. I know there are some people in the North of Mexico with the same last name, I'm thinking they may be relatives but as they are big business people they haven't reply to me. 

I also havent found any ship list or any record related to that. 

thanks for taking the time to read my post! 

[helen]

Hi Marlee - Can you work backwards, for the time frame. What year was your Grandmother born? Then that would mean your GGF died 5 years before - at what age? You said he was born about 1889. Assuming he was about 20 when he went to Mexico, that would mean C1909. Did your GM ever speak of any Uncles? Did your GM ever speak Chinese? If so, what dialect?

By 1920, Mexicali's Chinese population outnumbered the Mexican 10,000 to 700.[2] A group of 5,000 single Chinese males started the Asociación China, a Mexicali's social organization at least partly devoted to finding Chinese wives from overseas, which remains active today. In 1927, a series of Tong wars here and other parts of Northern Mexico erupted over control of gambling and prostitution rings. Mexican alarm over the Chinese organized crime led to the government-encouraged Movimiento Anti-Chino. In the late 1920s, a wave of anti-immigrant sentiment that swept the country and led to the torture and murder of hundreds of Chinese in northern Mexico. However, the Chinese in this city were numerous enough and politically strong enough to protect themselves. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinatown,_Mexicali

Try to locate the whereabouts of the Asociación China - seems it still remains ctive today.

[douglaslam]

Hi Helen and Marlee, I am sure many of our members are touched by marlee's sincerity and persistence in tracing her heritage. Marlee's case is not unique but her determination stands her out. My hat off to you.

Some of you may well know I am still in China this very moment. I guided a group of seventeen Austrlians to their ancestral village and home. I also visited the village of member andrewAU and found a close family link. These two are open and shut cases. I have full personal and village names to go on. My tasks are much easier.

I once saw a documentary on overseas Chinese from my county Chungshan. Tyuti1668 would know the one I am talking about. There was a segment on Mexico, and I remember seeing some long term residents were from my home county. If you can supply me with some tangible clues, I'll do a search in the field in Chungshan, assuming your ancestor was from Chungshan, in what remaining time I have in China on my current visit. It is a very long shot.

I have plenty to report supported by photos upon my return to Sydney.

Douglas

[helen]

Hi Douglas - I'm heading off to Beijing in 7 hours. I hope you enjoy the rest of your time in China. Catch you mid November. The temperature seems mild 9-16C in Beijing in the next few days.

[douglaslam]

Helen, have a safe journey and happy time away. Beijing is much cooler than what I am experiencing here which is about 30 degrees C. I've been going to the opera, Cantonese opera, for the last four nights. I love it, and will be at it again,tonight. I am a true Cantonese and villager. I feel so belong. I'll be in Sydney back to work in mid November. I am sure you can log on to this Forum anywhere in China, just as I am doing now. Stories from you please. Douglas

[Henry]

Dear Marlee,

Asociación China de Mexicali
Avenida Juárez 120, Zona Centro, Mexicali, B.C. 21100
[phone]

Asociación Chung Shan
Avenida Juárez 132, Zona Centro, Mexicali, B.C. 21100


Henry

[marlee]

Hi Douglas  

Thank you so much for your help! I really appreciate it! This is follow me through the years. I've even dreamed about it. I have felt must of the time a stranger in my own country. I wonder if thats my Chinese side playing a bit with me. I have been trying to interview more people and I may have more information this coming Saturday from my Aunty.

So Far the Only things that I know is

- The name on birth Certificates are LEY CAM. Apparently LEE was changed to LEY once he arrived to Mexico. There is not a first name in any oficial paper un less LEE or Cam was one of the name and the other the last name. He adopedted the Spanish name Ignacion so he was known in Sinaloa, Mexico as Ignacio Ley Cam

- According to my calculations he was born around 1889 in Canton. My Grandma told me that.

- He married my Great-grand Mother Leticia Apodaca and they were in Sinaloa in two locations Los Mochis and Ahome.

- There are a group of people in Sinaloa using the same "last name" Ley. One of these guys name is Don Juan Ley (LEE) Fong. Find picture Attached, not quite sure the relationship, may have been cousin? or just from the same City (here is the link unfortunately it is Spanish www.casaley.com.mx/2015/index.php/nuestra-organizacion.html )

- My grandma mentioned several times that his father had already a wife and kids in Canton.

- There was a Vessel arriving to Mazatlan, Sinaloa with Merchants and Students from China in 1911 We have the believed he may have arrived then at the age of 22 years old.

I will try to provide more information by this Saturday. Thanks in advance for your help I really appreciate it and it means a lot to me.

[marlee]

Hi Henry 

Thank you so much for sharing the information. 

I have sent an email to the first contact and email is not working. However I have asked one of my family members to call. 

For the second association there is not email address or phone 

Let's see if we can get any information from one of them

[marlee]

Hi Helen 

It's been a crazy day! I started trying to connect some dots with my uncle (one of my grandmother's son) We spent a couple of hours trying to understand a bit more the information we have been finding on internet. 

Nobody knew what dialect he used to speak, my grandma was to little when he died. We assumed he arrived in of the vessels in 1911 in Mazatlan but that is just a guess. He might have been 22 years old at that time. There is few more people in the north of Mexico using the same last name who arrived in 1911. They are into business and politics so we haven't been able to get any answer but in other hand there is some public information and thats where we got the information of the vessel arriving in 1911. 

Now I haven't found a list of passengers or any information about that vessel not even a name. 

He also know he was already married in China and had kids. Also we have a birth certificate from one of my grandma's brother saying the Father was a man under the name of LEY (LEE) CAM from Canton China with the profession of agricultor. 

One of my aunties is visiting this Saturday her god-mother and apparently she may recall more information so she is trying to investigate more then. 

Thank you so much for your help! If I don't get to know more about my Great grand father at least this experiences has taught me that there still kind people out there!