Counties of Guangdong

[Deleted]

Hello all, I've been absent from this forum for some years , my family history research has taken me off on a number of fruitful tangents but I need a bit of general help now.

I am looking for a map or picture that shows me the actual borders of the counties of Guangdong province of the period around 1850-1911 (ie pre-fall of Qing dynasty). The more detail
the better, and specifically it should focus on the counties around the pearl river delta, Sze yap areas and the counties of Huiyang Dongguan, Longgan, Bao'an etc. Maps with modern county and district
borders are easier to come by.

Secondly, would anyone know of any specialised maps detailing the Hakka villages of the Huiyang/Dongguan/Longgan/Bao'an regions as they existed circa 1900?

Cheers

Adam

[helen]

The coordinates used in the village database come from this map www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/ams/china/txu-oclc-10552568-nf49-8.jpg (clicking the hyperlink doesn't work, you'll need to copy and paste the link). This map is quite old (compiled in 1954) and the English transcriptions are in Wade Giles so it can be confusing to many users. Nonetheless, it is still very useful as a guide since there isn't much difference in the names of individual villages between this map and a modern map.


www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/ams/china/txu-oclc-10552568-nf49-8.jpg



www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/china.html

[Deleted]

Many thanks for that link Helen, I really appreciate it.

[helen]

Post code China

www.geopostcodes.com/China

Map

www.geopostcodes.com/coverage

[Deleted]

Hi Helen, many thanks for the links. I know the location of my own ancestral villages but I've been trying to help a friend work out where his ancestral village might be. I was interested in the county borders because I wanted to know whether any border changes might have territorially shifted the location of villages, even though the actually physical location is the same. We think his village is located near Songmugang, which according to the maps is in Dongguan, although his father believes their county of origin was in Huiyang. They are Hakka with surname Woo.

[Deleted]

If I can pose this problem generally to everyone: For my friends family who are surnamed Woo (Hu, 胡), are Hakka and know that they are either from Huiyang county (惠陽) or possibly somewhere in the vicinity of Songmugang (松木岡) village, which itself is in Dongguan county. Apparently their grandmother told them they were from Huiyang but she is long deceased and a family friend later told them that their family village was near Songmugang, so we don't know which claim is more correct. My friends grandfather was named Woo Kun Yeung (胡官陽) and he migrated from his village to Singapore, then Singapore to New Guinea in about 1900. No known headstone of their grandfather exists and the headstones of his children apparently have no Chinese characters on them, so the question is: Is it still possible to find the exact village they came from? Are there any Woo Hakka villages near Songmugang or in Huiyang that may point the way to finding a Zupu to confirm this?

[Doug 周]

Consider contacting rhew . He has done a lot of work mapping Hakka villages in your geographical area of interest. Look over his posts and you will find links to his original databases and web sites. Let us know the results of your search.

[rhew]

Our database has 3 individuals, all named 廖 Lyew in Jamaican Hakka, from Songmugang (松木岡) village, and if you read Chinese, the details of the nearby market towns or districts might help you # 315-03 and 315-09 at cbajamaica.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=283&fullsize=1 and #316-13 at cbajamaica.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=284&fullsize=1 (free registration may be required) .

We have not (yet) been able to confirm that village on the modern maps that we have access to, but there is one by that name here: 22.737166, 114.132683. View in Google Maps (You will have to move to a slightly different spot to see the village label appear.) If you IM me your email address I can send you links to the 1866 map that has many Hakka villages marked, and the Gazetteer that also lists many old Hakka villages. I have found that many of our burial records refer to the relatively old boundaries of Bao'an and Dongguan, e.g. in the 1600's, long before the dates of the individuals involved.

[helen]

Congratulations rhew - there has been a lot of work done here - well researched. One day. I hope we in New Zealand will have something like this.

[Deleted]

Hi rhew, I have just messaged you with my email address. I have seen the map but would be interested in this old gazetteer containing a list of old Hakka villages. Do you know if any of these villages are specifically Woo (胡) villages? My friend believes that Songmugang is near to his Woo village, but we are trying to establish whether this is true or not. His father mentioned a place called Bak Mong Fa, but he has no idea whether this might be a village, district, or something unrelated. Is there a Bak Mong Fa or similar in your database?

As an aside, I myself am a Liao (Liu/Lew) although my family do not come from Songmugang, they actually come from Sanzhoutian in Huiyang. I am aware that the Sanzhoutian/Songmugang lineages split about 500 years ago.

Cheers

Adam

[peripatus2000]

Hi everybody, just following up so more leads regarding Woo Hakka villages. I'm told there is an area which was formerly called Bak Mong Fa or Baimanghua (白芒花). Possibly in or near Huiyang county.

Can anyone tell me, is Baimanghua/Bak Mong Fa a district? county? market town? something else?
Where is it situated now? What is it called now? Is there any maps of it?
Are there Woo Hakka village here?

Cheers

Adam

[hchlee]

Hello Adam/peripatus2000,

I'm a Lee from the Bak Mong Fa or Baimanghua (白芒花) region. In this post: siyigenealogy.proboards.com/post/14692/thread <--- laohuaqiao told me that 白芒花 is the old name of 白花鎮 (Baihuazhen). This corroborates with other information I've found online.

I haven't found exactly which village in Baihuazhen my family came from, but I hope it helps.

Best Wishes,
Henry

[peripatus2000]

Hi Henry,

Thank you very much for that information!!! I really appreciate your help in this matter. Now that I know Baimanghua seems to have become Baihuazhen, and that
this seems to be a small market town, I can start to narrow down the search for a Woo village in this area. Thank you again!

Cheers

Adam

[hchlee]

Hi Adam,

You're welcome! I'm glad to help. If you do discover any useful links or information, please could you send it to me? I'm looking for Lee 李 and Yeung 楊 villages in that region. Thank you!

Henry

[rhew]

Peripatus 2000: I didn't see an IM from you, but I just sent you one.

hclee: I sent you an email with some links.

I remember seeing some reports produced by the British around the time of the takeover of the New Territories that detail the Hakka and other Villages involved, and some of the surnames living in each. They were on the Hong Kong website and could be downloaded from there, but I can't remember exactly where/how I found them. If you can't find them, let me know and I will try to find them again. However, they only dealt with the New Territories, and I think both of you are interested in villages on the mainland.