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Post by kcchung on Mar 19, 2017 16:43:46 GMT -5
I am interested in understanding adoption process in China in the 1930s and if there is any stigmatism to being adopted.
In the case I am looking at parents were separated - the wife living in China and the husband living in US. The husband sent money home for the wife to adopt some children. She adopted a girl and boy from a neighboring village with the same surname. The girl was 1-2 years older. It was said they were birth brother and sister. Money was exchanged for the payment of $100/year of the age of the children.
I searched this forum and found a few postings on adoption and the reasons behind it. (1) to honor the family and do ching ming (2) to have a designated beneficiary of the property, and (3) to have someone care for his wife he left in China.
My FIL was said to be adopted from a neighboring village, maybe 30 minutes away. His birth name was the same, which probably makes him distantly related to his adopted family. He also recalls being the eldest of 3 boys and he started school shortly after he was adopted.
Would he keep his given name when he was adopted? It is not believed there was close family of the adopted family left in the village. Would the village accept him upon the death of his adopted mother? Would they pay the same $$ for a girl as they do for a boy adopted?
How common was this practice?
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Post by Doug 周 on Mar 20, 2017 8:39:35 GMT -5
Ginny, I am not sure what threads you have found. We had a similar conversation in 2011 and 2012 and my main source was a user mentor laohuaqiao, who had not participated in the forum in 2014. Let me share that the depth of his knowledge is extensive, literate in Chinese, born in Taishan, living and working in Manhattan, a frequent traveler to his home province, and still active in the Taishan Facebook group. He has quoted some numbers. During my study of my Zhou zupu in Zhongshan, maybe 5-10% of the males were adopted. He quotes a much higher figure for Taishan, and one of his reference is a French article on adoption in China. If you want, I can try to find that article in my archives. Please do an advance search with the key word adoption and limited to the user laohuaqiao. Hope that helps answer your question.
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Post by kcchung on Mar 20, 2017 11:01:07 GMT -5
Doug - I think this is the post you are referring to siyigenealogy.proboards.com/post/13680I had found this in my first search. Unfortunately I don't have access to a zupu and continue to work off the stories told to me over the years. So 5-1-% of the males were adopted. I am very curious if others felt there was a stigmatism to being labeled adopted. Would he keep his given name when he was adopted? It is not believed there was close family of the adopted family left in the village. Would the village accept him upon the death of his adopted mother? Would they pay the same $$ for a girl as they do for a boy adopted?
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Post by jasonwu on Mar 20, 2017 13:35:38 GMT -5
Hi Ginny,
I have some general knowledge of this issue as this was a very common practice in Old China and a few relatives of mine were adopted.
To address the question of social stigma; I would say that these children who were taken in as heirs were generally not discriminated against by their adoptive clans. I know this for a fact because my maternal great-grandfather was adopted as an infant and his offspring have always been regarded as a part of the village. In this case, since my great-grandfather had no memory of his previous family, he was given a new name.
To address the question of maintaining the same name; a paternal great-great-uncle of mine was adopted by his godfather when he was a young boy and, in contrast to my maternal great-grandfather, my paternal great-great-uncle kept his birth name (but changed his family name) since he was adopted after he had gotten used to it. His case would be comparable to that of your FIL.
To address the question of the reception of the adopted child by his birth clan; it was acceptable for the adoptive child to visit their birth family if the adoptive family allowed for it. Drawing on the case of my paternal great-great uncle, he regularly interacted with his biological clan even while his adoptive father was still alive. To this day, I still address his children as my great-uncles and -aunts. What would be taboo is if he or his offspring decided to re-enter their birth clan after the death of the adoptive parents and without consent from the adoptive clan. This is due to the monetary exchange that made the adoption possible and the responsibilities of the adoptive descendants to honour the adoptive ancestors, as per your original post, during Ching Ming and other important events throughout the year; it would be a breech of trust upon the original adoption agreement.
To address the question of adoptive daughters; I am not quite sure if the monetary exchange would be the same but I would believe that adoptive daughters would cost less since they are of no use in terms of succession and ancestral worship. In harsh reality, girls would often be bought as servants rather than daughters. For example, my maternal great-grandmother purchased two young girls from two impoverished families who could not afford to support all their children, however, since she only had two children of her own, she treated these servant girls as daughters and even arranged their marriages and prepared their dowries.
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Post by kcchung on Mar 20, 2017 14:39:33 GMT -5
Thank you
re: social stigma - The reason I raise this issue is because my FIL's adoptive mother told my MIL the primary reason she sought a wife outside of the village was she wanted to align her son with a stronger village upon her death in the case of any reprisals as he was not born into this village.
re: name - in my FIL's case his clan name didn't change. I surmised that they allowed him to keep his given name as he was 3-5 years old at the time of his adoption.
re: acceptance by the clan or village - this may have been a timing issue as my FIL was adopted around the Sino-Japan War and then followed by the change from old->new government. My MIL didn't have any close ties remaining in the village as her husband's immediate family had left for either HK or US.
I don't believe my FIL had any interaction with his birth family after the adoption. Which to be honest I didn't expect him to, but I was basing it on western practices and didn't want to leap that they would be the same.
re: daughter's adoption - that was my guess as well that they would be cheaper, but again I was trying to determine if there was a policy. I know the daughter leaves the family upon her marriage so for longevity purposes for a female adoption is limited in time.
So you may ask why did I ask the question? I'm trying to not let my Western knowledge of adoption determine the same applied to Eastern culture specifically China in the 1930s. I know from my own family Ching Ming is a big thing and I can totally understand why the need to ensure a continuation of Ching Ming occurred if there were no male heirs.
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Post by Doug 周 on Mar 21, 2017 5:03:57 GMT -5
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Post by kcchung on Mar 21, 2017 8:47:04 GMT -5
Wow you found more on your search of this forum than I did. Thank you.
Interesting that the adoption rate was as high as 50%. You now spark questions of infant mortality in that region to result in such a high adoption rate to compensate.
I know in my case my FIL's adopted parents did had 2-3 children who died quite young. I didn't think of it so much until you noted such a high adoption rate.
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Post by Doug 周 on Mar 21, 2017 8:59:52 GMT -5
The reason I have an independent recollection of these posts is that one of the threads is mine when I was studying the adoptions listed in my Zupu. The search function of the Forum has never been a strong point. The question of infant mortality was addressed in the French article referenced by laohuaqiao. I am away from my archives, so when I find the article, I will share the link.
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Post by Doug 周 on Mar 21, 2017 15:00:31 GMT -5
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Post by kcchung on Mar 21, 2017 16:57:23 GMT -5
Fascinating information, Doug.
Does every family have a zupu? Who would hold it? Is it managed strictly by the family?
I'm curious if my husband's family had a current zupu and where it would be.
---
Update - I asked my MIL and she's not familiar of any family zupu.
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Post by kcchung on Mar 21, 2017 19:38:27 GMT -5
Doug - another tidbit I just picked up from my MIL. Her husband referred to his adopted mother as Paw. She seemed to think he used this term instead of Mother to distinguish from his birth mother.
Does that make sense?
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Post by Doug 周 on Mar 21, 2017 20:28:35 GMT -5
...Does every family have a zupu? Who would hold it? Is it managed strictly by the family? ... The zupu/jiapu 族谱/家譜 is the Holy Grail of Chinese genealogy. The zupu is an important clan document used by the elders to administer the functioning of the village. It is similar to the census document. These were ordered destroyed, along with the ancestral halls during the Cultural Revolution by the Red Guards to re-establish the power of Mao ZeDong. A jiapu is the parsing of the zupu for an individual family to confirm their genealogy. Please view the videos of Henry Louis Gates discovering the zupu of YoYo Ma. Like YoYo Ma, families tried to hide their zupu/jiapu from the Red Guards and their rediscovery leads to an important find for Chinese family historians.
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Post by kcchung on Mar 21, 2017 20:40:54 GMT -5
That is so cool - thank you.
Do you know about the reference of Paw? Is that a title for adopted mother which you are familiar with?
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Post by Doug 周 on Mar 21, 2017 22:50:01 GMT -5
...Do you know about the reference of Paw?... All mothers are called Paw? Sorry, I have no Chinese language skills. Maybe Jason with more language skills can help you.
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Post by kcchung on Mar 22, 2017 7:31:02 GMT -5
My children call their paternal grandmother Mama, and grandfather Yeh-yeh. My husband's sisters children call their maternal grandmother Paw-paw, and grandfather Gong-gong. I asked a friend and she calls her paternal grandmother ah-paw which she translated as elderly woman. I know from history people refer to individuals differently dependent on if they are on their father's side or mother's side.
Another tidbit in the story to unmask.
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