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Post by aremanvin on Apr 23, 2017 3:10:23 GMT -5
Hi: The headstones of Oei Yan Kioe and Liem Tien Nio both have "Shenzhai" written on them. However, the headstones of married women sometimes carry the name of the husband's place of origin rather than their own. But it also possible that they came from the same place. Because Chinese is a tonal language, with many different characters pronounced the same way, it is impossible to figure out the correct characters for Tjiong Ka based only on the words as written in your family records. Also, you have to take into account that someone speaking Indonesian took the Chinese (Hokkien) pronunciation and then tried to find letters to represent it, so "Tjiong Ka" may or may not be close to the actual pronunciation in Chinese. If you find something in Chinese characters that might give us a clue, I would be happy to take a look at it. According to the online dictionary I have found, 安溪 could be pronounced "an-khe" or "an-khue," so I suppose something like "an-gwee" is a possibility. But I have to warn you again that I am totally unfamiliar with Hokkien. Your great-grandfather's headstone says nothing else about where his family might have originated, and Anxi is only the name of a county. You need the name of a village. You have been able to trace back to your great-great grandparents, which is not bad. Many people can't get past their grandparents. But I understand the desire to know more. That desire is what motivates people to keep trying. There are a couple of things you can do other than visit China. One is that you could write to the Quanzhou Office for Overseas Chinese Affairs. The address is here: 泉州市人民政府外事侨务办公室 泉州市丰泽区府东路东海行政中心交通科研楼A栋二楼 E-mail:wqb@fjqz.gov.cn I don't know how effective a message in English would be. Perhaps someone else on this forum has experience dealing with this office and would be able to give you direction. But in my experience in dealing with similar offices in Guangdong Province, a letter in Chinese gets results. I would send the information you have (photocopies would be good) and ask if you still have any relatives in the area. If the answer is yes, you could try contacting those people to see if there are any genealogical records. The other thing you could try is to visit one of the existing Huang family associations in Indonesia and see if anyone there can give you any information about your family or at least their place of origin. There is a list of Huang family associations in Indonesia here: visitbagan.blogspot.co.id/2011/12/alamat-perhimpunan-marga-huang-di.htmlBest of luck to you. Greg Hello greg What kind of information should be given in the form of a photocopy? I just get information about my ancestors is only a story of the older generation and the only tombstones and maybe some of their photos while still alive. If I should write an email to Quanzhou Office for Overseas Chinese Affairs what should I ask? Do I have to describe as I write on this thread about my ancestors? What should I put? I want to know more because what I know so far is only my ancestors who have lived in Indonesia, I want to know my ancestors are still original from mainland china and stories about their lives thx
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Post by chang on Apr 23, 2017 3:27:16 GMT -5
Are there something wrong here according to the story "I only heard that story from my grandfather. Then Liem Tien Nio remarried to a man named Oei Yan Kioe, therefore my great grandfather inherited the clan oei of Oei Yan Kioe." Liem Tien Nio
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Post by chang on Apr 23, 2017 3:38:46 GMT -5
Are there something wrong here? According to the story "I only heard that story from my grandfather. Then Liem Tien Nio remarried to a man named Oei Yan Kioe, therefore my great grandfather inherited the clan oei of Oei Yan Kioe." - Liem Tien Nio's first husband Tjioe Tjiong Ka, and second husband Oei Yan Kioe who was 郭 (died 1928); - Liem Tien Nio and Tjioe Tjiong Ka's son Oei Twan Bie 黃傳美 (died 1950) Oei Twan Bie had two sons and four daughters. I think Tjioe Tjiong Ka was quite rich family, therefore, when Liem Tien Nio remarried with 郭 who had to carried Tjioe Tjiong Ka's name which was Oei Yan Kioe.
-Chang
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Post by aremanvin on Apr 23, 2017 4:04:18 GMT -5
Are there something wrong here? According to the story "I only heard that story from my grandfather. Then Liem Tien Nio remarried to a man named Oei Yan Kioe, therefore my great grandfather inherited the clan oei of Oei Yan Kioe." - Liem Tien Nio's first husband Tjioe Tjiong Ka, and second husband Oei Yan Kioe who was 郭 (died 1928); - Liem Tien Nio and Tjioe Tjiong Ka's son Oei Twan Bie 黃傳美 (died 1950) Oei Twan Bie had two sons and four daughters. I think Tjioe Tjiong Ka was quite rich family, therefore, when Liem Tien Nio remarried with 郭 who had to carried Tjioe Tjiong Ka's name which was Oei Yan Kioe. -Chang Hello chang True, there is nothing wrong with the conclusions you get from my story But how can you conclude that tjioe tjiong ka is from a rich family? I'm still trying to dig deeper about tjioe tjiong ka because there is no relics of any kind and only name, and I also do not know the writing in chinese script can you help me maybe? hehehe
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Post by chang on Apr 23, 2017 10:36:11 GMT -5
Since Greg already help you to interpret the tombstone, therefore, we know 黃 is the family name. Then you can see Tjioe Tjiong Ka, Oei Yan Kioe and 黃延求 (Huang Yan Qiu)are the same name with different spelling. A widow Liem Tien Nio, she wanted to inherit the legacy of Oei, the family property and her son 黃傳美, the other man had to change the family name. In this case, 郭 used name Oei Yan Kioe, then they inherited the legacy of Oei, otherwise, Liem Tien Nio had to leave the Oei's family without anything. From this point, Oei family must had some heritage and family property for 郭 to give up his own family name. -Chang
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Post by gckimm on Apr 23, 2017 16:51:04 GMT -5
Hi:
There are still some mysteries to solve about your family's past, as we have discussed previously.
In regard to writing to the Office of Overseas Chinese Affairs, I think the letter or e-mail could be very simple, something like this:
My name is [Chinese name]. I am come from a Chinese family that has lived in Indonesia for many years. I am trying to learn more about my ancestors and hope that you can help me. Enclosed [or Attached] are some photos of the graves of my great-great-grandparents and great-grandparents. Can you tell me if I still have relatives in China? I would like to contact them. Thank you. [Be sure to include your contact information.]
As you can see above, the only photocopies or scans that I think you need to send would be photos of the headstones. But make sure that the copies or scans are large enough and clear enough for someone to read.
I don't know if contacting this office will be successful, as the information from the headstones is a little confusing. I hope that what will happen is that someone from the office will travel to Shenzhai and show the photos to people of the same surname to see if anybody recognizes the names. If you are lucky, someone will say he is related and the office will then give you his contact information. All you can do is try.
Greg
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Post by aremanvin on Apr 23, 2017 22:23:17 GMT -5
Since Greg already help you to interpret the tombstone, therefore, we know 黃 is the family name. Then you can see Tjioe Tjiong Ka, Oei Yan Kioe and 黃延求 (Huang Yan Qiu)are the same name with different spelling. A widow Liem Tien Nio, she wanted to inherit the legacy of Oei, the family property and her son 黃傳美, the other man had to change the family name. In this case, 郭 used name Oei Yan Kioe, then they inherited the legacy of Oei, otherwise, Liem Tien Nio had to leave the Oei's family without anything. From this point, Oei family must had some heritage and family property for 郭 to give up his own family name. -Chang I'm a bit confused with your explanation Do you think tjioe tjiong ka and oei yan kioe are the same person but just different spelling names only? In what dialect oei yan kioe can be read into tjioe tjiong ka? Tjioe tjiong ka surnamed is tjioe while oei yan kioe surnamed is oei Then do you think guo is the original clan name of oei yan kioe? In Greg translation from the tombstone before, Guo is the heir of oei yan kioe, the mystery we have not solved yet is why suddenly there is a guo clan on someone named Guo Jizhi (we also dont know who is Guo Jizhi?) who appears on the tombstone from liem tien nio and oei yan kioe Tjioe tjiong ka also remains a mystery to us in the absence of any record of him thx
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Post by aremanvin on Apr 23, 2017 22:28:56 GMT -5
Hi: There are still some mysteries to solve about your family's past, as we have discussed previously. In regard to writing to the Office of Overseas Chinese Affairs, I think the letter or e-mail could be very simple, something like this: My name is [Chinese name]. I am come from a Chinese family that has lived in Indonesia for many years. I am trying to learn more about my ancestors and hope that you can help me. Enclosed [or Attached] are some photos of the graves of my great-great-grandparents and great-grandparents. Can you tell me if I still have relatives in China? I would like to contact them. Thank you. [Be sure to include your contact information.] As you can see above, the only photocopies or scans that I think you need to send would be photos of the headstones. But make sure that the copies or scans are large enough and clear enough for someone to read. I don't know if contacting this office will be successful, as the information from the headstones is a little confusing. I hope that what will happen is that someone from the office will travel to Shenzhai and show the photos to people of the same surname to see if anybody recognizes the names. If you are lucky, someone will say he is related and the office will then give you his contact information. All you can do is try. Greg Hi greg I do not have a Chinese name Since my generation all our names have been using Indonesian's name because the former government did not want any Chinese name for citizens of Indonesia Is it okay i write a letter without my chinese name?
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Post by chang on Apr 25, 2017 5:28:45 GMT -5
it should say that Guo just carried the name of oei yan kioe, and no longer use his original name of Guo. Tjioe Tjiong Ka and oei yan kioe could be just from the person who did registration for them, and did his best spelling from their dialect. If you are going to write letter to Fujian, you might only refer to Huang Yanqiu 黄延求. -Chang
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Post by gckimm on Apr 25, 2017 23:29:53 GMT -5
Hi: In regard to the question about your own name, I would ask someone literate in Chinese to give you one for the purposes of corresponding with the office. It's not really of great importance but I think a Chinese name would make the people there look on you more favorably. --Greg
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Post by ricker on Aug 11, 2018 17:09:02 GMT -5
HI aremanvin
I am only at the beginning of the journey of tracing my ancestry.
My father's family was domiciled around Kediri and I wonder if any of the following names came up in your research: OEI An Djien = My grandfather, born in Tulung Agung in 1902. He married a Dutch woman. OEI Jauw Pang = My great-grandfather. I have not found any documents that could tell me his date or place of Birth.
I know that OEI=Widjaja is a common Chinese Indonesian name but I thought I'd give it a shot.
Thank you.
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Post by philiptancl on Aug 12, 2018 0:10:53 GMT -5
HI aremanvin I am only at the beginning of the journey of tracing my ancestry. My father's family was domiciled around Kediri and I wonder if any of the following names came up in your research: OEI An Djien = My grandfather, born in Tulung Agung in 1902. He married a Dutch woman. OEI Jauw Pang = My great-grandfather. I have not found any documents that could tell me his date or place of Birth. I know that OEI=Widjaja is a common Chinese Indonesian name but I thought I'd give it a shot. Thank you. Hi Ricker, Your surname in would be Huang/Ng/Oei/Wong depending upon the Chinese dialect. The Chinese character would be 黄 and in Indonesia those with surname “Widjaja” would be of this surname. I would guess the province of your ancestor origin in China would be Fujian/Hockien (福建). You need to look at the gravestone of your great-grandfather and/or grandfather to see if you can find the Chinese characters of their names and the name of the ancestral place in China they originated from. If you are interested, I could put you in touch with another Indonesia who I had help in not only finding his ancestry but I had advised/assisted in going to his ancestral place, attended the annual gathering of the clan and, on his own, explored the various places mentioned in the ancestral chart I had designed and constructed for him. The chart I had drawn is shown below: Philip Tan
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Post by ricker on Aug 19, 2018 2:41:20 GMT -5
Hi Philip
Thank your for your reply. Yes I would like to get in touch with other people who are further ahead in this journey. 我知道我姓黄。 我也知道我的祖先是福建人。 我最大的问题是:I can't get hold of any document that has the 汉字 on my father (OEI)'s side. The headstones and are in Dutch.
On my mother's side, my great grandfather 蒋玉传 apparently went back to China.
Any pointers appreciated.
黄理奇(huangliqi1@gmail.com)
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Post by philiptancl on Aug 19, 2018 19:35:38 GMT -5
Hi Philip Thank your for your reply. Yes I would like to get in touch with other people who are further ahead in this journey. 我知道我姓黄。 我也知道我的祖先是福建人。 我最大的问题是:I can't get hold of any document that has the 汉字 on my father (OEI)'s side. The headstones and are in Dutch. On my mother's side, my great grandfather 蒋玉传 apparently went back to China. Any pointers appreciated. 黄理奇(huangliqi1@gmail.com) Hi Ricker, Just replied to you by email. Philip
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Post by aremanvin on Nov 3, 2018 8:53:03 GMT -5
Hi Philip Thank your for your reply. Yes I would like to get in touch with other people who are further ahead in this journey. 我知道我姓黄。 我也知道我的祖先是福建人。 我最大的问题是:I can't get hold of any document that has the 汉字 on my father (OEI)'s side. The headstones and are in Dutch. On my mother's side, my great grandfather 蒋玉传 apparently went back to China. Any pointers appreciated. 黄理奇(huangliqi1@gmail.com) Hi Ricker, Just replied to you by email. Philip Hi can you help me too? Thx
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