Sorry for the confusion in terminology regarding the Shiqi River. In order to garner an overall appreciation of this topic, one should understand that the Pearl River Delta in Guangdong Province is part of an estuary, which in technical terms, an estuary is a semi-enclosed coastal body of water with one or more rivers or streams flowing into it, and with a free connection to the open sea (from wikipedia.com). The Pearl River estuary receives water from the West, North and East Rivers, and there are more than 200 waterways in the delta area. The water in these waterways flows in different directions, thus forming a highly complex river network. These waterways ultimately empty into the South China Sea. As twoupman has so aptly pointed out, the Shiqi River is one of these waterways that flow through Shekki (now called Zhongshan City), and it is not part of the Pearl River that runs through Guangzhou. While the Shiqi River is not technically a tributary to the Pearl River itself, it is an integral part of what is called the Pearl River waterway system. Thus, the Shiqi River is a separate waterway.
This explanation is a bit technical, but I hope this clarifies the genesis of the Shiqi River for you. Take a look at a map of the Pearl River Delta for additional clarity.
I thought you may find the following historical maps of the Pearl River Delta - interesting. They appeared in the article " People Said Extinction Was Not Possible;" 2000 Years of Environmental Change in South China by Professor Robert B. Marks.
I believe "Xiangshan" was a former name for Zhongshan.
Thanks for the information about the Pearl River system and the maps. I am learning quite a bit about the area and how the rivers flow to the surrounding villages. Henry, am I correct in assuming that the bottom right map is the most current?
Yes, the bottom right map was the latest of the 4 maps. The "CE" acronym/abbreviation may be confusing - so, I found a short explanation from the Internet:
"CE stands for "Common Era." It is a relatively new term that is experiencing increased usage and is expected to eventually replace AD. The latter is an abbreviation for "Anno Domini" in Latin or "the year of the Lord" in English. The latter refers to the approximate birth year of Yeshua of Nazareth (a.k.a. Jesus Christ). CE and AD have the same and value. 2004 CE = 2004 AD.
BCE stands for "Before the common era." It is expected to eventually replace BC, which means "Before Christ," or "Before the Messiah." BC and BCE are also identical in value."
These historical maps are interesting because they portray the development and growth of the Pearl River Delta over time - which in part explains why many of the cities and towns in the Pearl River Delta might only appear on current maps and not on historical maps.
I think I have found your ancestral village "An Hang". Please look in the NW quadrant of the map and you'll see the arrow pointing to the village just beneath the road marker " G105" This is an August 2005 map and I believe it is the latest map commercially available.
Can one of our Chinese literate colleagues confirm the Chinese characters for "An Hang". I know the first character, but, I do not know the second character and also, I believe it is in simplified Chinese.
PS - I have removed the map since the village that I identified is not your ancestral village An Hang.
Which other villages east of the river speak Longdu dialect?
the "outlying" Longdu speaking area: 南区 : 月山 寮后 金溪 沙田 树涌 坦背 : 观栏 板芙 : around 里溪/深湾 神灣 : 芒冲 Similar dialect also in 唐家 淇澳岛
Hi tyuti1668, This post was originally posted in Douglas' "My Excellent Adventures in China" thread but I do not want to add irrelevant posts to it so I thought it would be more appropriate to post here. I want to ask if æœˆå±±, é‡‘æºª, æ¨¹æ¶Œ, è§€æ¬„, é‡Œæºª and èŠ’æ²– had former names because I can't seem to find these villages in this database. www.c-c-c.org/villagedb/search.cgi
Those non- æ²™æºªã€å¤§æ¶Œ area are alluvial field (æ²™ç”°). The resdientis are Yue speaker (å—ç•ªé † immgrant) that rents land. In past we called them "èœ‘å®¶ä½¬". When communist tooks power, they ruined Longdu speaker's benefit. -- Zhongshan Outlaws in ROC (http://www.zsnews.cn/ZT/ZSZX/showindex_1188.shtml) had many stories releated to thoese "profitable" area .
Last Edit: Jul 13, 2010 22:08:20 GMT -5 by tyuti1668
Post by mugenpower168 on Jul 13, 2010 22:58:48 GMT -5
I see, so although there were areas outside Dachong/Shaxi that were administratively part of Longdu, only Dachong/Shaxi (and to an extent some of the outlying villages previously mentioned) are culturally/linguistically considered Longdu. Is this correct?