peripatus2000
Member
Interested in anything and everything to do with Chinese genealogy
Posts: 12
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Post by peripatus2000 on Dec 4, 2007 5:26:22 GMT -5
Hello all,
I'm looking for the location of my great grandfather's ancestral village (this is on my paternal grandfathers side). His wife, my great grandmother also probably came from the same village. I've had the name translated from my great grandmothers gravestone: 1) Sanzhuotian village (Sum Chau Tin in cantonese) 2) Huiyang county 3) Guangdong province
Our surname is LIU however it's correct form is actually LIAO. I've been given two different versions for his name, one is LIU FONG TAK, another is LIU FOOK. My great grandmothers name before she married was SIAK YAU TAI.
I can send a picture of the chinese characters if necessary.
I'd also be interested in finding the ancestral village of my great grandfather on my maternal grandmothers side. Their surname was WAN and they came from the same county and province, but their town was Danshui.
Any help in find these villages/towns, and advice on how to proceed with genealogical research would be much appreciated!
Cheers Adam Liu
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Post by Henry on Dec 4, 2007 10:18:34 GMT -5
Hi Adam, The confusion resulting from various romanization schemes can only be clarified by the Chinese characters themselves. Please post the Chinese characters - the following link explains how to do this. siyigenealogy.proboards28.com/index.cgi?board=comment&action=display&thread=1146475997The following is a link to my website where I have loaded a detailed map of Huiyang county. This is a 2004 map and it contains lots of simplified Chinese characters - you will need to convert the Chinese characters that you have from traditional to simplified Chinese characters. This map may show the location of your ancestral villages: mysite.verizon.net/vzepzaui/Huiyang County.jpg After the map appears - you can right click the image and save the image with a ".jpg" extension. I left the map in a high resolution so you could zoom in without loss of detail. If you have any problem doing this, please email me at: [ Tomclan@gmail.com ] and I will email the map to you directly. Henry
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Post by twoupman on Dec 4, 2007 22:15:20 GMT -5
Danshuizhen (淡水鎮) is the old name for present-day Huiyangshi (惠陽市), that is, the town itself.
Cannot find Sanzhuotian. Need the characters. My guess is: 三?田.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2007 1:09:10 GMT -5
Hello Twoupman, I have sent an email to Henry re: the chinese characters for Sanzhuotian. I can send these two you as well - I haven't worked out how to post pictures just yet. What is your email? Regarding Danshui - thankyou for that piece of information, it matches the chinese characters I have. The San and tian from Sanzhuotian also match but I'll send the picture. My email address is [ peripatus****@*****.com.au ] Would you happen to know about villages in Jiangxi province? I have another greatgrandfather you came from Yangshangshui village, Huichang county, Ganzhou prefecture, Jiangxi province - I can email these details as well. Cheers
Note from the Admin:
I've replaced some characters in the email address. I'll email your email address to Twoupman. Unless your email address is disposable in future please use PM to exchange email and other confidential information. No point in making life easy for the spammers.
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Post by twoupman on Dec 11, 2007 16:22:23 GMT -5
Adam, based on your first and other posts I realize you are quite bamboozled by the Chinese transliterations you have at hand, so, it may be helpful if I explain them for you. Take your surname, you spell it Liu for the Chinese surname 寥 because it is Cantonese whereas Liao is Mandarin. You see, your ggf was a Cantonese speaker. The names Liu Fong Tak, Liu Fuk and Siak Yau Tai are also Cantonese transliterations. All the other translations you got are in Mandarin.
As for Sanzhoutian I cannot find it on the map. Perhaps the map is not detailed enough for this small place. Danshui on the other hand is a place inside the city of Huiyang.
In your PM to Henry, who passed it on to me, Huichang (會昌) county in Jiangxi Province (江西省) is located in the southern-most tip of the province just west of Fujian Province (福建省) and north of Guangdong Province. I cannot find the place called Yangshangshui. I will PM the map to you so you can search for it yourself since you have the Chinese script. The map is all in Chinese.
It would help if you can post the image of the tombstone of your ggf so we can identify his proper name. A man can have more than one name in his lifetime; some have even more.
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Post by Henry on Dec 11, 2007 17:10:41 GMT -5
Based on another PM to me, Adam mentioned that "San Zhou Tian" was actually located in the adjacent county formerly known as Bao'an - now known as Shenzhen, which is about 30 km due north of Hong Kong and about 45 km SW of Huiyang City. I believe there is a place named "San Zhou Tian" about 21 km NE of downtown Shenzhen and there is also a large reservoir nearby with that name. Located in the northern part of Huiyang City is "Danshui". Please see the map below:
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Post by tyuti1668 on Dec 20, 2007 2:13:51 GMT -5
Henry's guess is correct. That area belongs to Huiyang county before PRC. Sanzhuotian is a famous place in history. The Huizhou Uprising (8 Oct, 1900) started from there. Danshui 廣東省惠州市惠陽區淡水街道辦 The dominant dialect of these area is heavily Cantonized Hakka.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2007 7:20:11 GMT -5
Hi Tyuti1668 - thank you! It's good to have confirmation that Sanzhoutian was part of Huiyang county before the PRC. Now, to be precise, it is part of Yantian district, within Shenzhen SEZ; though all formerly part of Bao'an county as well. It is interesting to note that my great grandfather Liu Fook (or Fong Tak, possibly), married in about 1900, and his daughter was born in Hong Kong in 1901. My grandfather was born in 1910 in New Guinea, so something may have precipitated his familys migration? Perhaps it was events related to the Huizhou uprising? I'm just speculating thus far.
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Post by puips on Feb 21, 2019 18:43:02 GMT -5
Hi there, I'm completely aware that this thread was started 12 years ago but I'm really interested in my family history.
I know that 三洲田 was where my family also came from. At some point my great grandfather went from there to 鹽田 (Yan Tian) and then my grandfather moved from there to 沙頭角 and they lived there (Hong Kong side) on houses on stilts. One of the biggest questions I have and I know my dad would love it if I could find this, is where the Clan book is.
I grew up in the UK so I have only a moderate grasp of Chinese but I am able to speak Cantonese and Hakka fluently.
Other interesting things I know is that from the stories is that there were once two brothers from the same village (surname Liu) and they were moving and part ways. One stopped in Sanzhoutian and the other in Sheung Shui (Hong Kong) so the two clans of Liu are related.
I have also visited modern day Sanzhoutian once, and it now a reservior, some hotels and tea fields. Very much a tourist type of place. I remember it was a very small winding road up a big hill.
I would love to find the Clan book for my dad and/or learn more about where we come from as our "closest relatives" (excluding my dad's immediate family) are not that close and so when my mum and dad got married the name my dad was given was unlikely to be the accurate 字背 as my grandad and great grandad had already passed away.
Sorry if I shouldn't have restarted this thread and hopefully I'll get some kind of reply?
Best wishes,
Pui Yu Liu (廖珮瑜)
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Post by Henry on Feb 21, 2019 19:31:30 GMT -5
puips, Please click on the following link to Chinese University of Hong Kong, where they appear to have genealogy books for your clan: libguides.lib.cuhk.edu.hk/c.php?g=252928&p=4200310On that page you will see a photo and email tab for Ann Chiu, who is: Contact: Special Collections, University Library, The Chinese University of Hong Kong (852) 3943-8786 Henry
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Post by jasonwu on Feb 21, 2019 20:32:53 GMT -5
Pui Yu,
I found this article which provides the lineage from a Fujian ancestor to the founder of Sanzhoutian, as well as a list of villages that the inhabitants of Sanzhoutian migrated to after the reservoir took its place: blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_5d1ab5a70101fwfi.html.
Hopefully, this gives you some new direction.
Best, Jason
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peripatus2000
Member
Interested in anything and everything to do with Chinese genealogy
Posts: 12
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Post by peripatus2000 on Jul 25, 2019 2:33:15 GMT -5
Hi Pui Yu,
My name is Adam Liu (廖傑偉) and I am the person that originally started this thread in 2007, that being the starting point my research into my own ancestry. I have covered considerable ground since then, initially with the assistance of the Henry and Twoupman on this board (thank you), and subsequently with a private researcher from My China Roots in China.
After identifying the location of Sanzhoutian (三洲田) I had my researcher make contact with the current chief of the Liu clan - his name is Liao Guanwei (廖觀維). He assisted in identifying the where my great grandfather fit into the clan genealogy. Yes, there still is a clan genealogy and it was last updated in 1998. Through my communications with him through My China Roots my understanding was that the genealogy was regularly updated until the 19th century. Unfortunately due to internal turmoil, updating of the genealogy fell by the wayside and was not resumed into later in the 20th century. As a consequence the full names of my 2x great and 3x great grandfather are missing, however the link to my 4x great grandfather was found because a (then) 97 year old villager knew of his genealogical connection to my 1x great grandfather. It turned out that this 97 year old man was 3rd cousins with my grandfather and therefore shared the same 2x great grandfather.
I was lucky enough to manage a trip back to Sanzhoutian in 2018 (last year) and met the old man, then 99 years old, and the clan chief Liao Guanwei. Liao Guanwei showed me around Sanzhoutian, now a tourist park unfortunately, but did point out the me the location of the old village under the waters of the reservoir. If you wish can provide you with Liao Guanwei's contact number as he would be the main point of contact for anyone searching for their Liao/Liu genealogical connections.
I also do have a copy of the 1998 clan genealogy which is only a slim volume of about 110 pages, all in Chinese, but contains all known lines of descent for the Liao clan that originate from the Shenzhen, Longgang, Henggang, Dakang region. If you wish to provide me the names of the Chinese names of your father and grandfather and great grandfather I can try my best with my limited Chinese to locate them in the this book.
Happy to help, Pui Yu, and fascinating to meet another overseas descended clan member. Incidentally, I see your family use the "Liu" spelling like my own family, whereas I understand that the Liao character is often transliterated as Lew, Liew or similar.
Cheers
Adam
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Post by puips on Jan 26, 2020 12:58:07 GMT -5
Hi Adam,
I have replied to your PM.
Best wishes,
Pui Yu
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peripatus2000
Member
Interested in anything and everything to do with Chinese genealogy
Posts: 12
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Post by peripatus2000 on Feb 13, 2020 15:45:23 GMT -5
Hi Pui Yu,
I hvave just seen your PM and replied to it.
Cheers!
Adam
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