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Post by philiptancl on Jan 16, 2012 9:25:59 GMT -5
Hi Nick,
Keeping of genealogical record is unique traditional Chinese cultural heritage which has been practiced since ancient times and no other culture has a comparable history of keeping family records and for over such a extended period of time.
If your ancestral record is put in front of you, it is likely that you would want to have a look; to look at your grandfather, to look at your parents. Everyone would naturally have that instinct and desire. However the records are likely to terminate a few generations when a member migrated overseas. The first couple of generations, some might submit the births for updating. However, many could be too preoccupied to eke out a living to be bothered to maintain such cultural habit. For those who do even now, future generations might not. Therefore there would be a break in recording for that branch.
Even those who continued to maintain their family records in their new lands initially might not be continued in by subsequent generations. Often these records could subsequently be thrown away either through moving between houses or due to the lack of appreciation of its importance. The rapid urbanization, economic progress and the pressure placed upon our society could result in the erosion of our traditional cultural heritages. It is important that we continue and preserve traditional culture heritage like maintaining family record so that your lineage that has been kept for so long are not lost.
Family record is a document for future generations. It is for the future generation to add upon, to protect and to preserve as it is a heritage to be treasured. When young you may not be thinking too extensively. When you get older you might wish to go back to your ancestral village to see your roots. However you may then not able to locate the ancestral place because you may be the third generation of overseas Chinese. Your grandfather ancestral place could no longer be the same as it had undergone redevelopment. However if you have your grandfather’s name and his original place of domicile in China, then in going there, you would be able discover your ancestry through the family records that may still be maintained there.
Even though it takes up your time, passion and money, that desire of knowing your roots would live within your heart and if passion ignites, whatever obstacles could be overcome.
Therefore I am very encouraged by you, even at an age of 21, that you are trying to locate your jiapu/zupu. I had contacted the President of Selangor and Kuala Lumpur Hainan Tan Clan Association again last night. He said he had received the details I had forwarded him. He knows Maihazhen é‚號鎮 and will search whether any of Wenchang zupus contained any jiapu from there. Nick, I have no commercial interest whatsoever in doing Chinese genealogy and would feel offended if construed otherwise. My involvement in this field, outside that of my own, is to interest others like you in pursuing yours.
Philip
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Post by philiptancl on Jan 24, 2012 2:33:20 GMT -5
Hi Nick, For reading the Chinese characters please select "View", "Encoding", "More" and "Unicode (UTF-8)". Are you positive that the complete line of your Generation poem reads as follow? 如月之æ’,å¦‚æ—¥ä¹‹å‡ It would sound odd as 如 and 之 are repeating. å¦‚æ—¥ä¹‹å‡ could be part of your Generation poem. There is one in Hainan with the following words: 行如日之å‡. From the obituaries you had provided, we note that your grandfather, father and your generations could be following the poem; namely "如", "æ—¥", and "之" respectively. A while ago, the President of the Selangor and Kuala Lumpur Hainan Tan (陳) Clan Association dropped into my house to show me three villages inè¿ˆå· (traditional Chineseé‚號) than are with Chen/Tan surnames. These are as marked below: é™³å®…å³Žæ‘ does not seems to be included in the list. However a place with few houses could be classified as a village and as such could be too small to be quoted. Now the challenge is to locate the jiapu/zupu that includes any of your names; especially that of your grandfather. Would you be able to provide the name (in Chinese characters) of your great-great-grandfather who was a minister? You said you have an uncle still in Penang. Would he be 日昇? Would you want the Association to get the Penang Tan Association to contact him to see what further information we could obtain? Philip
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Post by philiptancl on Jul 6, 2012 6:00:33 GMT -5
This Chinese genealogical chart shows the lineages of Chen/Tan/Chan/Chin (陳) that settled at various places in Hainan Island. The chart is to be printed into a scroll and is expected to measure about 44 inches high and 75 inches long. A printed scroll is to be presented as a gift to the Selangor and Kuala Lumpur Hainan Tan Association for their invitation to attend their Annual Dinner on Saturday July 15, 2012. A scroll each is also be presented to the Singapore Hainan Tan Association and the Penang Hainan Tan Association; both expected to attend the dinner as well. Hope members of this Forum with this surname and whose ancestral villages are from Hainan may find the chart of interest. Philip
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Post by hongcan on Dec 23, 2012 2:34:57 GMT -5
Hello all.. my name is Adi and I am Indonesian Chinese. I am not sure if i pop into the right forum. But I would hope that anyone can help me with my problem. My chinese name is Chen Hong Zhan ( 陈宏展 ) I was recently aware that my middle name ( 宏 )is actually my generation name. My mom had explained to me that my generation share the same middle name. Hence i would like to find out what is the generation name following my generation, so that I know what to name my children.
However, since my father and all of his relatives had been passed away for quite a long time, I could not find any source of info regarding with my generation names. Is there any way I could find out what is my children generation name and my grandchildren as well? I realize that it is not a big matter in my country, but I just want to preserve the culture and follow the Chen generation lineage so that it will not lost. my father's generation name is Tuan ( 团 ).
Can anyone help me please? or maybe there is a link where I can find it? I can only understand very little mandarin. but if there is any mandarin language website, i will use google translate to try to read it. thank you so much...
Adi
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Post by philiptancl on Dec 26, 2012 0:52:29 GMT -5
Hi Adi, If you are just looking for your generation poem, you need more details than what you had provided. If you know where your ancestors originated from in China, you stand a better chance of finding it. The gravestones of your father, grandfather, grandmother or those for any of your Chen relatives (or their wives) could provide you the origin of your ancestors in China. There are substantial number of Indonesian Chinese originating from Fujian Province (ç¦å»ºçœ) including the Yongchun County (永春县) where my ancestors are from. During my visit there in April 2012, I obtained a reference book for Yongchun County providing among others the jiapu/zupu and generation poems for the surnames within the county. Find attached the jiapu/zupu and generation poems for about 30 Chen clans in Yongchun County. While I could see the character å® in a few of the generation poems, I could not see any 团; let alone one with 团 and å® running consecutively. I just returned from Yongchun gain just yesterday and I brought back three additional reference books for the following counties in Fujian: 1. An Xi County (安溪县), 2. De Hua County(德化县), and 3. Hui An (æƒ å®‰åŽ¿) (Part 1 of 3. The other 2 parts under compilation. Chen is not in Part 1). Should your ancestors were from either An Xi County or De Hua County in Fujian, I could check those two reference books for you. Philip
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pete
Member
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Post by pete on Mar 12, 2013 3:51:23 GMT -5
Hello, i just learned from my uncle that our forebears were named Chin Wing Kiam and Yee Shi. Could these names be located in any of those genealogy records available. What is a "generation name" all about?
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Post by Doug 周 on Mar 12, 2013 15:05:39 GMT -5
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Post by philiptancl on May 4, 2014 0:07:04 GMT -5
Nick,
It is great to learn that you have managed to locate the ancestral villages of your grandparents and have uncovered other relevant information regarding my clan through My China Roots. I have heard about this particular setup dedicated to assist people searching for their China roots but I have yet to know anyone personally that uses its services until your posting. Could you let the Forum members know the costs involved in your particular case? Now that you have got the photos of jiapu pages, the villages, and family members, I suppose you now have your complete pedigree chart of your particular Wenchang Tan Clan (文昌陳氏). Can you let me know how you branch is connected to the other branches from that county of Hainan based on the chart I had drawn up previously? I had traced and compared two branches of Chen/Tan (陳) from that county based upon the different set of zupus from there. What I found is that there are some differences between the two sources from Chen Shi Gong down. Could you supply what is shown from your jiapu pages if they provide details up to that generation?
Philip
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Post by philiptancl on Jul 20, 2014 9:05:58 GMT -5
As a continuation of siyigenealogy.proboards.com/post/13480/quote/752?page=16 the branch descending from Chén Fàn (陳範) has other sub-branches further down. Below is the chart showing the ancestral line leading to the sub-branches for all the ten sons of Chén Hàn/Běn Shēn/Chǔ Xià (陳瀚/本深/处下). Chén Hàn is eldest son of Liù Cūn Chá Zhōu Progenitor Chén Yù Fū (六村槎洲始祖第1世祖︰陈遇夫). Also provided are the web pages from where the genealogies descending from each of the ten sons can be abstracted. Kjhong’s mother is descended from the third son.
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kjhong
Member
Find me on Geni.com
Posts: 87
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Post by kjhong on Aug 12, 2014 2:14:03 GMT -5
Continuing philiptancl's great work above, I was able to create the following pedigree for my children tracing their paternal grandmother's father's ancestry: (click to enlarge) Here's a link to the pdf version of the chart: www.geni.com/documents/view?doc_id=6000000027471867731
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kjhong
Member
Find me on Geni.com
Posts: 87
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Post by kjhong on Aug 14, 2014 2:46:18 GMT -5
Hi Philip, You may have covered this elsewhere. But in case you haven't, I noticed that link between Chen Hugong (陳胡公) for Chen Shi (陳實) on "Scroll 2: From Chen Hugong Man to Chen Shi" ( Link to Scroll 2 on Geni.com) is different from the link shown on Al Chinn's website. ( houseofchinn.com/History(2).html) Here are Chen Shi's immediate ancestors from Scroll 2: In Al Chinn's history, he recounts how Chen Shi's ancestors fled to Qi Guo in Shandong and adopted the name Tian (田). Several generations later Tian Zhen (田軫) fled Qi Guo and returned to Henan changed his name back to Chen (陳) and established the family in Yingchuan (潁川). Tian Zhen's 15th generation descendant was Chen Shi. Here are Chen Shi's ancestors going back to Tian/Chen Zhen from Al Chinn's website: Regards, Ken
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Post by philiptancl on Aug 14, 2014 10:18:51 GMT -5
Hi Ken, This is old story that did not come to a conclusion. My source is taken from the zupu of my branch of Chen. Below is from another zupu published in 2010 together with the page showing the biological and the adopting branches. Philip
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kjhong
Member
Find me on Geni.com
Posts: 87
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Post by kjhong on Aug 14, 2014 17:01:36 GMT -5
Thanks, Philip. My Zupu only goes back to our ancestors who settled in Guangdong. So, it's interesting to see the differing stories about our ancestors going farther back. The story on Al Chinn's site is quite fascinating.
I may have to include both stories when I get to that point.
Cheers, Ken
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Post by philiptancl on Aug 14, 2014 22:50:07 GMT -5
Ken, Yes, that is what I had observed for many Zupus, especially among those updated during earlier periods, contain mainly ancestors up to the progenitor that settled in the related county or related province. This is even so for some clan Zupus that is printed in recent years. It is one of the big significance of this Forum that members are willing to help and share freely their information and knowledge with one another. It is through this magnanimous sharing among members that many could link their own limited ancestries with those of earlier ancestries that other members within the Forum may have. Yours is but two of such examples. You have your ancestral records for both your parents for the last ten years. It is through members of this Forum that you found the links with earlier ancestors for the pedigree trees for both your parents. From your posting in this Forum and in Geni.com (where we share the same family group) I can see that this new linkages has spurred you with increased and renewed interest in your ancestry. It is great that you are sharing your pedigree charts developed with others. For reasons of their own, not all are willing to do so and some not even wanting to connect up onto Geni when invited. When you studied the early ancestries of other surnames, you would occasionally find differences when comparing from different sources. I doubt one would be able find a suitable conclusion for some of them. I suppose it is for the person whose ancestry is involved to choose the most appropriate one to adopt. The way as I see it, this Forum is serving as a platform for encourage those with Chinese descent to explore the beauty of their family history that is behind each of their surnames and for which their ancestors had painstakingly kept over many centuries. Differences that might arise and debated over this Forum would only serve as distractions for those venturing out for the first time to search for their ancestry. There is also an advantage in comparing Zupus to rectify any error that already existed or might have crept in during each updating. One such case is the page shown below where Chen Hui aka Chen Fengtai (陳輝/陳鳳臺) is shown as the son of Chen Feng Shan (陳鳳山) rather than Chen Wan Shan (陳萬山). It to be expected that one would tends to view his own source to be correct. In this case, after shown many other sources, the person concerned accepted the general consensus. Kind regards, Philip
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Post by Doug 周 on Aug 15, 2014 10:21:13 GMT -5
....Differences that might arise and debated over this Forum would only serve as distractions for those venturing out for the first time to search for their ancestry. There is also an advantage in comparing Zupus to rectify any error that already existed or might have crept in during each updating.... Philip, What you and Ken are discussing is advanced Chinese genealogy. There is no other place in the world where we can have this English-language-based discussion at this level of Chinese Genealogy. Other ethnic groups are not as blessed to have over 4000 years of the culture of keeping and revering their genealogical lineages. This Forum is an eclectic group of people and interests, with room for beginning and seasoned family historians. Whereas I usually help other (newbie) genealogists, I also participate to learn new concepts and ideas about my own heritage. I am involved in several other genealogy forums. The experience level and concentration of Chinese family historians is significantly greater here than any other. Also, this is one of the few genealogy forums which is completely opened to the public; anyone in the world can read and learn. I really enjoy, appreciate, and want to encourage your advanced discussions. I am preparing to write my own tale of reconciling conflicts in my early jiapu discoveries for my surname; however, my conundrum is only circa 1000 years ago.
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