|
Post by philiptancl on Aug 17, 2014 3:55:06 GMT -5
Doug 周, My current interest Chinese genealogy is not just on various aspects related to my Chen (陳) surname. Wherever I could I try to assist others in searching for their ancestry and anyone having found their ancestral records to assist, wherever I can, to make sense out of it for them if requested. Also, when requested, to construct their pedigree chart to enable them to have a better appreciation of their ancestry. Another area of my interest is to see how people of different surnames could be linked to each other whether that had happened during ancient time or, if relevant, could be linked up now currently. When one is given his ancestral records it could be still be quite intimidating, even for those who are literate in Chinese, it could be quite daunting to make some sense out from their ancestral records (so I was given to understand by quite a number already having their ancestral records). I agree with you for this Forum to also be a platform for more advanced discussion on Chinese genealogy. Having explored the ancestries for quite some other surnames, there indeed are some issues or differences that could be discussed in this Forum and hopefully come to some consensus. On those specific to a particular surname, it is best for those connected to it to initiate the issue on the Forum first. In the event that others or should I have some sources to provide further illumination on the issue, it would then be appropriate for us to join in. Such is the case brought up by Ken. In some instances these were discussed over emails without the benefits to members of this Forum. From my past experience, to bring out issues first on other surnames, or certain practice that other clan already appeared to be following (maybe through subsequent evolution of practices and already assumed as universal within their circle), could sometime tend to be sensitive. However there are some that are more general in nature that cuts across other surnames as well. On this I could bring up a few to see the views and sources that other could have. For now I just want to bring one up for discussion. This relates to the connection between Shennong (神農) and Huangdi (黃帝). According Sima Zhen (司馬貞)'s commentary to the second century BC Shiji (史記) (Records of the Grand Historian), Shennong (神農) is a kinsman of Huangdi (黃帝) and is said to be an ancestor of the Chinese. The Han Chinese regarded them both as their joint ancestors. Shennong (神農) is considered to be Yandi (炎帝). In the zupu entitled “陳氏族谱(上冊)廣東省海陸惠地區” that I have Huangdi (黃帝) is shown as the brother of Yandi (炎帝). See Fig 1 below. Originally I had used this connection between the two in the family group in Geni.com I belong. However I understand there are about 500 years between Shennong (神農) and Huangdi (黃帝). Subsequently I came across another zupu entitled “大埔縣藍氏族譜(第一冊)” that shows Huangdi (黃帝) as the 9th great nephew of Yandi (炎帝). See Fig 2 below. This seems to be more likely taking the difference in years. I have therefore revised in the said family group to reflect this. Philip
|
|
|
Post by Doug 周 on Aug 18, 2014 15:08:34 GMT -5
Philip, I appreciate how you reconciled the different documents and the 500 years between Huangdi (黃帝) and Yandi (炎帝). In addition I need to add Shennong (神農) to my vocabulary as I study the Imperial period of the Zhou, Han, and Qin dynasty. Be assured, I am no expert in Chinese historical periods, and prefer the Gregorian calendar as a reference point. (So I merely took Philip’s second century BC annotation and cross referenced it to online dynasty names). Genealogy gives me the opportunity and contextual references to study Chinese history. So here is my reconciliation of my jiapu/zupu conundrum: Again, I need to thank Henry and Tan Shi Cheng for getting me a large amount of my heritage information in 2010 click I am forever indebted to their help. I shared this information with Philip originally 4 years ago. Despite his offer, I was not ready to digest the early ancestral period; much energy was needed to study recent events. ie widen the breadth of my family tree rather than explore it’s depth. I am now ready to delve vertically deep into the tree. Much of the previous information has been augmented by recently received additional data. Being illiterate, I need translation help. Despite Chinese being spoken by 25% of the world, translating a jiapu requires unique skills. This especially includes reading traditional characters and having a grasp of Chinese culture and history. The latter provides references to significant people and helps recognize additional posthumous given names.These important persons are what I call anchor figures. Because of their fame, genealogist tend to try to connect or anchor their family tree to them. This was a problem when a previous translator did not recognized an alleged ancestor Zhou Dunyi 周敦颐 (posthumous Zhou Lianxi 周濂溪) click and the region Lingnan 嶺南 (South East China, includes the present provinces of Guangdong, Guangxi, Hainan, Hunan, and Jiangxi) Genealogists consider geographical references as the third point of the three coordinates of genealogy (similar to GPS; first coordinate is names, second is time period) My conundrum is that how could I be sure that, despite the explicit statement in my jiapu, I was a descendent of Zhou Dunyi? Were my descendents trying to anchor their jiapu/zupu to Zhou Dunyi? Him Mark Lai click brought clarity. As excerpted from his digital archives click in a 1991 treatise, taken from THE GUANGDONG HISTORICAL BACKGROUND, WITH EMPHASIS ON THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE PEARL RIVER DELTA REGION pp 88-89 click So despite my jiapu/zupu stating who my progenitor, I will always be on the look out for corroborating or contradictory information. Finally, an important lesson to be learn is what to expect from a translation service. See the examples below. Original Jiapu page Translation Make sure your translator can: - Read traditional characters
- Have an understanding of Chinese historical people and historic geographical names.
- Able to transcribed characters into computer text.
- Highlight the given names in a different color than the geographical places.
IMHO
|
|
|
Post by fonny on Aug 24, 2014 10:35:12 GMT -5
Philip, I appreciate how you reconciled the different documents and the 500 years between Huangdi (黃帝) and Yandi (炎帝). In addition I need to add Shennong (神農) to my vocabulary as I study the Imperial period of the Zhou, Han, and Qin dynasty. Be assured, I am no expert in Chinese historical periods, and prefer the Gregorian calendar as a reference point. (So I merely took Philip’s second century BC annotation and cross referenced it to online dynasty names). Genealogy gives me the opportunity and contextual references to study Chinese history. So here is my reconciliation of my jiapu/zupu conundrum: Again, I need to thank Henry and Tan Shi Cheng for getting me a large amount of my heritage information in 2010 click I am forever indebted to their help. I shared this information with Philip originally 4 years ago. Despite his offer, I was not ready to digest the early ancestral period; much energy was needed to study recent events. ie widen the breadth of my family tree rather than explore it’s depth. I am now ready to delve vertically deep into the tree. Much of the previous information has been augmented by recently received additional data. Being illiterate, I need translation help. Despite Chinese being spoken by 25% of the world, translating a jiapu requires unique skills. This especially includes reading traditional characters and having a grasp of Chinese culture and history. The latter provides references to significant people and helps recognize additional posthumous given names.These important persons are what I call anchor figures. Because of their fame, genealogist tend to try to connect or anchor their family tree to them. This was a problem when a previous translator did not recognized an alleged ancestor Zhou Dunyi 周敦颐 (posthumous Zhou Lianxi 周濂溪) click and the region Lingnan 嶺南 (South East China, includes the present provinces of Guangdong, Guangxi, Hainan, Hunan, and Jiangxi) Genealogists consider geographical references as the third point of the three coordinates of genealogy (similar to GPS; first coordinate is names, second is time period) My conundrum is that how could I be sure that, despite the explicit statement in my jiapu, I was a descendent of Zhou Dunyi? Were my descendents trying to anchor their jiapu/zupu to Zhou Dunyi? Him Mark Lai click brought clarity. As excerpted from his digital archives click in a 1991 treatise, taken from THE GUANGDONG HISTORICAL BACKGROUND, WITH EMPHASIS ON THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE PEARL RIVER DELTA REGION pp 88-89 click So despite my jiapu/zupu stating who my progenitor, I will always be on the look out for corroborating or contradictory information. Finally, an important lesson to be learn is what to expect from a translation service. See the examples below. Original Jiapu page Translation Make sure your translator can: - Read traditional characters
- Have an understanding of Chinese historical people and historic geographical names.
- Able to transcribed characters into computer text.
- Highlight the given names in a different color than the geographical places.
IMHO Doug, I would like to make a comment on "" since many Guangdong genealogist, in seeking social status and prestigious and respectable ancestral trees. may have been tempted to make claims, often unsubstantiated, to remote . ancestors of northern, and hence Han Chinese, as opposed to “southern barbarian” origin." When I talk to my uncle in China about who kept the Jiapu in the family present or in the past. He said It is usually a member who knows how to write. If the eldest son in the family doesn't want the resposibility, then the 2nd son carrry on.This tradition still carry on now. Some time, the family will hire a Tutor or teacher to copy the Jiapu (if they can afford it). The copy of Jiapu passes from one generation to the next. In the real world in China in 1940's.Most the people didn't know how to write. If you graduated from high school. It was an honor and one would get double portion of the B.B. Q. Pork form the ancestor hall during celebrations. Also the teacher or tutor they hired to copy the Jiapu, actually miss pages( because it was eatern by moths)or paragraths. Also if one want to add or delet something, the Elders in family had to agree with the changes. In the 1900, in China, the is no TV, no computer, no library,. The rich people hired tutor to teach their sons at home. Usually the private tutor only taught them 三字經 Three Character Classic四書五經Four Books and Five Classics. There was no histroy lessons. Like I told my brother yesterday, the only people who could change the historical record were the government official, Court Astrologer(太史) because the emperor didn't like what was written. Also most of the overseas Chinese , their ancestors came overseas because of econmical condition, wars and peseutions. Only the super rich people could afford to hire writers to rewrite their genealogy records to elevate their status. I think this was not a common occurance. In the old day if you were super rich, the emperor would ask you to (守陵)guard the Imperial graves. If you change your Jiapu, the government would use this as an excuse to put you in jail. To me , the commom people bounded by tradition, most didn't have the means or knowlege to change their Jiapu and elevated their status . Each dynasty had their 史官 in the Imperial Acadamy翰林院 to collect and correct the historical record修史. Also my brother asked me how come our Jiapu was able to record from 1000AD to 1976 AD for over 900 years. I told him that they were Counsellor of the Palace光祿大夫. As goverment official they had secretaries did the recording for them.Also they didn't dare to change the Jiapu because it was disrespect to one's ancestors and you also broke the laws. I did find the miss- information about ancestors happened because the ancestors hall( in certain place) tried to be inclusive and had all the ancestors with the same last name listed. The descendents thought they are the direct branch from my ancestor. My ancestor and their ancestor had the same grandfather.They are still related to my ancestor but just on a different branch. I think what they recorded in my Jiapu is true because most of the ancestors entries recorded their name, birth date and when they passed away. Who did they married and how many sons. Where they moved to. Also their official title if they worked for the government. Sincerely Fonny
|
|
|
Post by philiptancl on Aug 24, 2014 23:51:48 GMT -5
Hi Fonny,
Just sent you a personal message regarding your Yee surname.
Philip
|
|
beng
Member
Posts: 3
|
Post by beng on Jan 15, 2015 22:51:42 GMT -5
Hi Philip I am a Singapore hainanese. My grandfather's generation name was 有, my father's 文 and mine is 明. Will it be possible to know my generation poem from these? And, what comes after 明, etc.
Thank you Beng Teu
Edit: I should add that my family name is Tan/Chen
|
|
rudy
Member
Posts: 8
|
Post by rudy on Jan 28, 2015 13:17:37 GMT -5
Hi Uncle Philip, I am Rudy from Medan Indonesia, I had been reading your discussions and blogs and been thinking if you could help me finding my family roots in Penang Malaysia. My great-grand father Tan Soey Hock was born in Penang in 1873 and had left for Tarutung (former Dutch-East Indies) Indonesia in his early adult age. He was never came back to Penang afterward. It was said that he left his parent and other siblings back in Penang. Later it was also said that my grand-father Tan Tjeng Bie used to sent any letters to his relatives in Penang; unknown to my generations because my father never noted on any address of his parent's relatives in Penang. Now as got I married and get aging, I wants to recall my family roots there in Penang. I believe in order to trace back our roots deeper to Xiamen I have to found the roots in Penang first. If you think you could be the helps that I looking for or having any advice on contact persons in Penang please be kindly to let me know, I and my family would highly appreciates it. For your more informations: My great-grand-father named Tan Soey Hock was born in Penang in 1873 from a family originated from Xiamen (Amoy), my grand-father named Tan Tjeng Bie was born in Tarutung Indonesia in 1904 and my father named Tan Bwe Eng was born in Sibolga Indonesia in 1942..he is about the same of your age! Thanks for your helps and time warm regards, Rudy Medan, Indonesia Read more: siyigenealogy.proboards.com/conversation/1984#ixzz3Q8oJSQjP
|
|
|
Post by philiptancl on Feb 12, 2015 9:17:10 GMT -5
Dear Rudy,
I had responded to your personal message a while ago. I just saw your posting here and I reproduce my PM reply to you here:
"Sorry that I did not see your personal message until just now as I had not logged into the Forum for quite a while. I was busy with quite many other things.
Your case is quite similar to a side-case of mine when I was trying to locate a granduncle of mine. He was given away for adoption while in China but he subsequently immigrated to Java. Though my side of the family managed to contact with them in early 1950s while my uncle was still alive, the contact between the descendants was lost after the death of my uncle in 1961. I was then still in school, and as is happening now among younger people of Chinese descents (and even among the majority of the older ones as well), I did not realize the importance and significant to knowing about family history and genealogy. When one is older one may start thinking about the following. Who are we? Where did we come from? How did we get ourselves landed up at the place we are today? What could the future be for us, or our descendants, or for any decision we might be taking today? During moments of such reflections over our existence, our minds and hearts abound with thoughts of these eternal and philosophical questions. At times like this, we wondered about our family roots, our genealogy and what the future could hold. Even if we do not, should we not provide our future generations the clues to these questions: a link to our past, our memory within the flow of time? In many cases during moments like these, the elders within our family may have long gone. Many of our family history are only from bits and pieces we could only vaguely recollect (if we had ever listened to what the elders had then related while they were alive). The letters between the elders, written information, and old family photos would had been consigned to the trash without us realizing they would be a huge reservoir of information for future generation in constructing the family history and genealogy if the jiapu is no longer kept by any member of the family. Such was my case regarding the contact with descendants of my granduncle in Java. For years since my interest in Chinese genealogy in 2007, I had been trying to find and to establish contact with descendants of that granduncle in Java without success until April 2014 when I finally did it through my ancestral village in China. That too is one branch that returned to China; the rest in Indonesia are the names (in Chinese characters) of the next generation.
If you are just trying to find descendants of your great grandfather in Penang, the best bet is through newspaper in Penang; hoping that someone there would be able to provide you the lead. If you are trying to trace your family tree, you need the name of your ancestral village beyond just Xiamen. Xiamen is a sub-provincial city very much akin to say Jakarta. Xiamen covers six districts namely: Huli District (湖里區) Siming District (思明區) Haicang District (海滄區) Jimei District (集美區) Tong'an District (同安區) Xiang'an District (翔安區)
Even if you can tell which district your ancestors originated from, you need to know the name of the ancestral village as well to narrow down the search. To find that out, you need to locate the ancestral grave(s) of any of your deceased relatives (especially those of the earlier years). This is to see if the ancestral village is engraved thereon. Since your great-grand father Tan Soey Hock never came back to Penang afterward, his grave would be in Sumatra. Seek that out and those of others. If you can locate your ancestral village in Xiamen and able to contact the your Tan clan ancestral hall there, there may be other relatives of your from Penang that might already been there before or in future. Hopefully you can re-establish contact that way as well.
Kind regards,
Philip Tan"
|
|
|
Post by philiptancl on Feb 13, 2015 22:41:53 GMT -5
Hi Beng Teu,
Sorry I did not see your posting until this morning. When I replied to Rudy on February 12, 2015, I did not see yours posted earlier than that of Rudy.
Since you are Hainanese from Singapore, I am quite sure that your ancestors could have originated from Wenchang (文昌) County in Hainan. Since you are a Chen/Tan (陳) as well, I have the generation poems for around 200 progenitors for the surname from that County; some of them having common generation poems with other progenitors. Are you sure regarding the sequence of your branch of generation names to be “有, 文, 明”? I found sequence of generation names of “士, 文, 明”, “聲, 文, 明”, “仁, 文, 明”, “新, 文, 明” , “行, 文, 明” , “大, 文, 明” , “嘉, 文, 明” , “貴, 文, 明” , “元, 文, 明” , “懿, 文, 明” , “濟, 文, 明” , “顯, 文, 明” , “玉, 文, 明” , “人, 文, 明” , “有, 其, 文, 明” , “信, 文, 明” “奇, 文, 明” and even ““有, 文, 士” but I cannot find one with “有, 文, 明”. Would you know the name of your ancestral village in Hainan and/or the progenitor of your village?
Philip Tan
|
|
|
Post by shuigao on Feb 26, 2015 8:54:21 GMT -5
Hi Master Philip, I am trying to trace my 陳 tree for my brother's baby up-coming in a few months time. We are Hainanese from Penang - unfortunately my grandma has passed away and my dad does not know how to trace the family genealogy. The only information he can give is: - My grandparents originated from "Boon Sio" (Is this 文昌?) - My grandfather's middle name: 明, father's middle name 昌 and me/my brother is 世. I tried to search in this photo you posted earlier but I don't see any "line" with 明 --> 昌 --> 世 ...
|
|
|
Post by philiptancl on Feb 26, 2015 10:50:50 GMT -5
Hi Shuigao,
You would not find the sequence of generation names from the chart. The chart was prepared previously for Kuala Lumpur and Selangor Hainan Tan Association. The chart provides the progenitor of Tan (陳) of various villages in Wenchang (文昌) County in Hainan. Your generation would be long after those names listed thereon. In going through the list of 200 plus generation poems, I could count eleven (11) of them that contain the sequence 明 --> 昌 --> 世. However some differs either on the character before 明 while others differ on the character coming after 世. In you can provide the middle name of your great grandfather it would reduce the list further. Older relatives who are related to you would likely be able to provide the name of your ancestral village in Wenchang (文昌). Knowing the name of your ancestral village could pin down the generation poem that would apply to you. The likely character after 世 could be 德 but it also could be 家 or 貽 or 傳 or 澤. If you are keen, I can tabulate the 11 sequences for you.
Philip
|
|
|
Post by shuigao on Feb 27, 2015 21:20:54 GMT -5
Hi Shuigao, You would not find the sequence of generation names from the chart. The chart was prepared previously for Kuala Lumpur and Selangor Hainan Tan Association. The chart provides the progenitor of Tan (陳) of various villages in Wenchang (文昌) County in Hainan. Your generation would be long after those names listed thereon. In going through the list of 200 plus generation poems, I could count eleven (11) of them that contain the sequence 明 --> 昌 --> 世. However some differs either on the character before 明 while others differ on the character coming after 世. In you can provide the middle name of your great grandfather it would reduce the list further. Older relatives who are related to you would likely be able to provide the name of your ancestral village in Wenchang (文昌). Knowing the name of your ancestral village could pin down the generation poem that would apply to you. The likely character after 世 could be 德 but it also could be 家 or 貽 or 傳 or 澤. If you are keen, I can tabulate the 11 sequences for you. Philip Hi master Philip, Thanks so much for your help! I had to call up my aunties and although they're not 100% sure, our ancestral village should be (in hainanese) dhua hum sui, something like big River or big pond village. Would that help at all in narrowing down the proper sequence?
|
|
|
Post by philiptancl on Feb 27, 2015 23:33:40 GMT -5
Hi Suigao, For searching your ancestry in Chinese genealogy, it is best to quote names, ancestral villages, etc, using Chinese characters. Romanized version of names, ancestral villages, etc, is quite bewildering. It could vary not only when done from person to person, across dialects but also whether across those residing in different parts of the world (Singapore/Malaysia, Indonesia, Philippines, US, and elsewhere). In tracking down the ancestral villages in China and subsequently the ancestral records (zupu or jiapu), it is quite essential to know them in Chinese characters and it is best to get those who know to write them out the in Chinese character. Can you try to get “dhua hum sui” in Chinese characters and the full address is possible. I could only guess “dhua” could be “大” “and” “sui” could be “水”. If you are staying in Kuala Lumpur, I could get you in touch with the President of the Selangor and Kuala Lumpur Hainan Tan (陳) Association to see if they can assist to correlate you ancestral village Tan clan with the correct generation poem. The best option is for you to locate your ancestral records for Tan from your ancestral village to confirm. Below is a chart I have just constructed from my database relating to the 12 generation poems for Hainan Tan of Wenchang (文昌) County that contained the sequence 明 --> 昌 --> 世 as well as other information associated with each generation poem. Philip
|
|
|
Post by chrischy on Feb 28, 2015 5:50:48 GMT -5
I'm so happy to stumble onto this forum just now.. I'm Chan too. Would like to read up as much on this family tree stuff. I'm a cantonese living in M'sia/Singapore, my grandfather is "Chan Hooi" from Yanping (pinyin - Enping?). I'm trying to locate the village too, and trace his root. My grandmother is from the neighbouring village, surname "Hooi", her father is "Hooi Kok". There should be records in China, although they later stayed in Malaya before the Japanese occupation period. There's no family book (jia-pu) handed down. It would have stopped with the last record in China. I understood from the maternal-side granduncle in San Francisco USA ("Looi Say Chuck" - Americanised as "Louie Chuck"; "Hooi" changed to "Looi" it seems) the village would be populated with very few people now. Most of them would have migrated to nearby towns and cities for living. He has visited the place some 20years ago (fortunately) but he didn't gather any photos or any written records.
Perhaps the database can lead to somewhere first... (I'm not chinese literated, hence could only recognise simple characters and words).
|
|
|
Post by philiptancl on Mar 31, 2015 5:31:49 GMT -5
In history, there is an extraordinary story associated with the surname Chen (陳). The Most Remarkable Clan Division in History.
Chen Clan of Yimen (義門陳氏)
A branch of the Chen (陳) surname is the descendent of Emperor Shun (舜). According to (通志.氏族略), after Wuwang (武王) of Zhou (周) defeated the Shang (商) dynasty and established the Zhou (周) dynasty, he granted a descendent of Shun named Gui Man (媯滿) a fiefdom in today’s Huaiyang county (淮陽) in Henan (河南) and established the Chen (陳) kingdom. Some of the descendents of Gui Man then took the name of the kingdom as their surname. Another branch of the Chen surname is the descendents of a prince of Qi (齊) kingdom, Tian Zhen (田珍). The Tian clan of Qi originally had Chen surname. After Qin (秦) defeated Qi, Tian Zhen ran away to Chu (楚) and changed his surname back to Chen. Another branch of the Chen surname is the decedents of the nobilities of Chen kingdom. When there was internal strife in Chen, many nobles ran away to other places, and took on the surname of their home kingdom. In fact all these three branches are the descendents of Chen kingdom established by Gui Man.
In Northern Wei (北魏), during the reign of Emperor Xiaowen (孝文帝) many Xianbi (鮮卑) tribe members took on the surname Chen. In Jin (金) dynasty, some members the Wanyan (完顏) tribe took on the surname Wang (王), and some took on Chen surname. After the downfall of the Yuan (元) dynasty, the first emperor of Ming (明), Zhu Yuanzhang (朱元璋) bestowed many Mongol nobilities the surname Chen. There are also many people with Chen surname among the minority races.
In Huaiyang (淮陽) county of Zhoukou (周口) city, Henan, there are still some people who refer to themselves as ‘old Chen households’, meaning they are very old Chen people. During the early and middle periods of Tang dynasty, there were two southern movements of Chen people to the south from the central plain. They all moved to Fujian (福建).
In 669, the Tang (唐) court appointed a native of Hedong (河東) (in today Shanxi (山西)) Chen Zheng (陳政) as the commander of a southern expedition force to suppress a rebellion in Southern Fujian. When Chen Zhen died in 677, his son Chen Yuanguang (陳元光) continued with the campaign. When Chen Yuanguang successfully suppressed the rebellion in 686, the court approved his suggestion to establish the Zhangzhou (漳州) prefecture (today Zhangzhou in Fujian). Chen Yuanguang therefore has the title of “sage king opening Zhang” (開漳聖王). His decedents are known as “Chen clan opening Zhang sage king branch”.
In Southern Song (南宋), Chen surname began to enter Guangdong (廣東) when Jin (金) army invaded northern China, many clans in the central plain migrated southward in large number, including the Chen clans. In late Ming, many people with Chen surname followed Zheng Chenggong (鄭成功) to Taiwan. One of Zheng’s general is Chen Yonghua (陳永華) of Tongan (同安) county in Fujian. When Zheng Jing (鄭經) succeeded his father, Chen Yonghua took up the responsibility of governing Taiwan. He was involved in the establishing of political, economic and cultural institutions, helping in the progress of Taiwanese society. The Tran dynasty which existed in Vietnam for 175 years was established by a man with Chen surname in 1228. Now the surname Tran (Chen) is one of the ten big surnames in Vietnam. The migration of Chen clans to Japan began in early Ming dynasty. They were mostly decedents of sailors sent by the first Ming Emperor. In Guangdong, Zhejiiang (浙江), Taiwan, Chen is a big surname.
During the middle period of the Tang dynasty, there was a person by the name of Chen Boxuan (陳伯宣) who was travelling to Lu Shan (廬山) with some friends. He was so impressed by the beautiful sceneries of the area that he moved his whole family to De An (德安) in Jiangzhou (江州). His clan was then known as ‘Chen clan of Jiangmen’ (江州陳氏) or “Chen clan of Yimen” (義門陳氏). Jiangzhou is today’s Jiujiang (九江) and De An is at the southern part of Jiangzhou. This Chen clan is very remarkable; “the most unique in Yimen, a hundred dogs in the same kennel.” According to records, at the beginning, the “Chen clan of Yimen” originally had only several family members, but by the beginning of the Song dynasty, it had over 740 members. During the reign of Renzong of Song (宋仁宗), its number had reached over 3700. They had never broken up the clan. Several thousand people with Chen surname shared the same kitchen. There were people specially looked after food preparations. When they ate, there would be over 300 tables eating together. This may be the largest canteen in Chinese history. Moreover, they had a rule: according to seniority, only when everyone was present and sat down would they start eating. In the “Chen clan of Yimen”, there was no talk of yours or mine, or your family’s or my family’s. When working in the fields, all able bodies worked together. When their cloths became dirty, they were washed by all the women in the clan. It was said that “one hundred dogs used the same trough, and were kept in the same cage”. The “Chen clan of Yimen” continued for nineteen generations.
By 1062, the number of people in the “Chen clan of Yimen” increased dramatically. This exerted a great pressure on the local population. Therefore, the ‘Chen clan of Yemen” was forced to be divided up. This is the most remarkable clan division in history. Who presided over their division? It was the Emperor himself. Who then carried out the whole process of division? It was none other than Judge Bao, Bao Chen (包拯), commonly known as Bao Gong (包公, "Lord Bao"). Judge Bao and another civil minister Wen Yanbo (文彦博) worked out a clan division plan and reported to the Emperor for approval. Renzong Emperor then bestowed numbers and divided the clan properties into 291 portions. Although Judge Bao wanted to divide the properties evenly, there were still differences. So the Chen people began to politely giving more for others. In this way the process took even longer. In this “Yimen Chen clan” division, its members went to places such as Jiangxi, Henan, Zhejiang, Jiangsu, Guangdong, Fujian, Shandong, Shanghai and Tianjin. When members of this clan reached their new places, the first thing they would do was to hang a lantern with the characters “Yimen” in front of their houses. In some places, this practice continued even until the 1950’s.
In modern Chinese history, there are many well known people with Chen surname. Among them, Chen Yi (陳毅), Chen Geng (陳賡), Chen Yun (陳雲), Chen Lifu (陳立夫), Chen Guofu (陳果夫), Chen Cheng (陳誠) and others are all descendents of the “Yimen Chen” clan.
Today, the surname Chen ranks fifth in the surnames of the whole country. There are 58 millions of them and they make up 4.7% of the population.
|
|
|
Post by amy on Apr 1, 2015 0:50:37 GMT -5
My cousin returned recently from Toisan with this zupu for 陳 in Toisan. It is about 2 inches thick. My family is allegedly in it. How would I begin to search it. My Chinese is rudimentary and this has over 700 pages.
|
|