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Post by LJ on Oct 10, 2015 17:26:14 GMT -5
Hi chinesesurname, Thanks for locating the online version of the General Genealogy. The family tree charts are in only one of the 15 volumes. I had previously taken a copy of the 1983 reprint. The online version is actually clearer. The reprints were made by unbinding and opening up the pages, which are numbered only on the fold, with the left and right edges inside the binding after folding the printed sheet. Two such sheets were then imaged on a single page, and reproduced the modern way. The volume listing the villages should be somewhere. I understand there are also volumes listing cemeteries and temples. I stumbled on the village because I was looking for the characters, and the county characters keep repeating. I have now sourced the ancestors from Mung, the founder of the Lookwai house to the founder of Gangmei, Kaiping at generation 58 on image 479. I haven't had time to look in my paper copy to get a hint how to find it in the online version. I'll probably work on the sourcing of the Gangmei tree first, By "the online version of the General Genealogy", you must mean 伍氏合族總譜 (Ng/Wu Clan Combined Clan General Chart) from FamilySearch's China Collection of Genealogies, 1239-2014 > Wu 伍 > China 中國 > Guangdong 廣東. Thanks for letting me know I located the General Genealogy online. Did you find your father's Chinese name in the [FamilySearch Guangdong Wu] genealogy collection? ...the pages that I uploaded to the Gangmei genealogy page I created. None of it is in the general genealogy. Since the General Genealogy is the only genealogy in the Guangdong Wu collection that pertains to Kaiping, then that answers my question about finding your father's Chinese name in that collection. Is the volume listing the villages the volume shown in Images 247 to 173 of 伍氏合族總譜[10卷, 首2卷] 15冊 10-15冊(卷6-10), 1933 {Ng/Wu Clan Combined Clan General Chart [10 Volumes, First 2 Volumes] 15 Books 10-15 Books (Volumes 6-10)}? The title and subtitle on the cover of this volume are respectively 嶺南伍氏闔族總譜 ( Lingnan Ng Clan Whole Clan General Chart) and 朱汝珍題 ( Vermillion Thou Precious TitleZhu Ruzhen Inscribed), while the title and subtitle on the first page are respectively 伍氏合族總譜 ( Ng Clan Combined Clan General Chart) and 七十一傳孫銓萃敬題 ( Seventy-One Biography Descendant Selected Collected Venerated Titles). And county characters are repeated in table after table in Images 227 to 174. As I mentioned in a previous post, I found the name of my possible ancestor, 則忠 (Chak Chung/Zezhong), who began the move of Ngs to Leliu (勒流), Shunde (顺德), in Image 203. Since the character 祠 (ci), which may mean "ancestral temple", also appear in these tables, then, I think this volume is the one listing temples. If I find the volume listing cemeteries, I will be sure to let you know. Thanks for sourcing the ancestors from Mung to the founder of Gangmei, at FamilySearch with the online version of the General Genealogy. I noticed that yesterday. According to Image 479, the founder of Gangmei and generation 58 ancestor is Shai Pan - the image indicates that he moved to Gangmei, Kaiping (遷開平崗美). So, the General Genealogy considers him, rather than 乾長 (Gon Cheung), to be the your village founder. However, two of the sources uploaded to your WikiTree seem to contradict this and each other: 崗美伍氏族譜 Gangmei Ng Surname Family Genealogy, page 38 states that Shai Pan started the move to Gangmei (始遷崗美) and Gon Cheung (just) moved there (遷開平崗美), while 崗美伍氏族譜 Gangmei Ng Surname Family Genealogy, page 40, says that Shai Pan resided in Mucun (住幕村) and Gon Cheung started the move (始遷崗美). In any case, I also noticed that you finally sourced the ancestors on the Gangmei tree, with the online version of the General Genealogy. Thanks for doing that as well, and thanks again for sourcing all of your ancestors with the images uploaded to your WikiTree. You have done another monumental job! Best regards, LJeung
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Post by LJ on Oct 10, 2015 18:07:14 GMT -5
Thanks for the update, Doug.
Best regards, LJeung
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Post by LJ on Oct 10, 2015 18:08:23 GMT -5
You're welcome, Fonny.
Best regards, LJeung
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Post by chinesesurname on Jan 7, 2016 22:29:00 GMT -5
LJeung and Doug,
Thanks for your updates. I will have to take some time to respond. Sorry for the absence as my Mom passed away not that long after my last response, and I am still dealing with many issues.
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Post by LJ on Jan 8, 2016 0:32:29 GMT -5
LJeung and Doug, Thanks for your updates. I will have to take some time to respond. Sorry for the absence as my Mom passed away not that long after my last response, and I am still dealing with many issues. Hi chinesesurname, I'm sorry to hear of your mom's passing. My sincere condolences to you and your family. Please take as much time as you need. I totally understand. Best regards, LJeung
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Post by genekl on Dec 21, 2017 11:21:25 GMT -5
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Post by Doug 周 on Dec 21, 2017 13:17:08 GMT -5
Thanks genekl That is what I like about participating on this Forum. Everyone shares and contributes their discovery of new resources. I have been waiting for years for the Mainland institutions to open their archives to online access. The Genealogy Resources under Geni's China Portal has an incorrect link to the National Library of China. It looks like the correct link is www.nlc.cn/ . I need Google Translate to explore the site, else have a Chinese literate person help me.
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Post by Doug 周 on Dec 22, 2017 1:03:21 GMT -5
English site for the National Library: www.nlc.cn/newen/Chinese Genealogy Database: It has collected 1,124 titles of genealogies of Song, Yuan, Ming and Qing Dynasties. Each title is made according to the original copy of rare books, with all information reserved, including tables, diagrams, and marks However, the link timed out at the time of this posting. Here is a description of their physical collection available in person via closed stacks: Genealogies are the documents which record the pedigrees and deeds of a kinship family, considered as one of the 3 document types of China (national history, chronicles and genealogies), which are valuable humanity materials. The NLC has begun to collect genealogies from the whole society in 1928. Up to present, there have been 105,000 volumes of new and old genealogies, among which 98,000 volumes are thread-bounded volumes. Besides, the NLC has started to receive the donations of newly compiled genealogies since 2001. Chronicles includes professional chronicles, institution chronicles, and specified chronicles. Professional chronicles reflect the development history of a certain specialty or community; institution chronicles reflects the development history of a certain institution; specified chronicles focus on a specified object. You can look up genealogies in Genealogies & Old Chronicles Reading Room. I may be wrong and the genealogies are not available online Hopefully someone more Chinese language literate can confirm.
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Post by chinesesurname on Mar 11, 2018 22:27:26 GMT -5
Sorry for my long absence from this thread. Among other things, I attended Henry Tom's 2016 Chinese Genealogy Conference in New York, and visited China in September 2017, visiting the Wu Zixu Ancestral Temple in Suzhou and 5 ancestral villages, including the Gangmei village previously discussed. I have since uploaded to Familysearch.com lines back at least to the village progenitor of 3 additional lines: Taishan : Xilongli 广东省 江门市 台山市 端芬镇 那太管区 西龙里 区村长 Wu Shi:伍 [mother's mother's father]Look Wai, 29 generations (6-11 missing) Taishan : Yongheli 广东省 江门市 台山市 端芬镇 海洋管区 永和里 梅村长 May Shi:梅 [mother's father] dead end Kaiping : Changanli 广东省 江门市 开平市 蚬冈镇 风洞管区 长安里村 司徒国伟 Guan Shi:關 [wife's father]29 generations Kaiping : Longpanli 广东省 江门市 开平市 蚬冈镇 蚬南管区 龙蟠里 Huang Shi:黄 [wife's mother's father]30 generations to Guangdong first ancestor, linking the main genealogy. As to which online genealogy sites I use, familysearch.com is probably the most enduring, but we need to source the genealogies to the family tree to fight wrongful changes. I use geni.com to share with living relatives knowing some will suppress data. I used wikitree to host Gangmei genealogy pages, but I have since received permission to have the genealogy placed online, and will probably try to see if familysearch.com will add it to their China genealogies. I have older versions up on myheritage, but am not actively maintaining them. They still have portions that do not support Chinese characters. I have a private version on Ancestry.com because I can use it on ipad app, iphone app, and browsers on ipad and computers. With Rootsmagic, I can sync between computer and both Ancestry.com and Familysearch.com By the way, my ChineseSurnames site which I transferred from Yahoo Geocities to Rootsweb seems to be down, at least for now. It is currently uploaded to chinesesurname.co.nf/
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Post by Doug 周 on Mar 12, 2018 16:21:08 GMT -5
...I have since uploaded to Familysearch.com lines back at least to the village progenitor of 3 additional lines... By uploading family lines, did you mean you manually entered family trees data or uploaded GEDCOMs, or did you image and uploaded analog pages of your clan’s zupu’s at this site: China Collection of Genealogies, 1239-2014? The latter is to what I want to donate owning one volume each of two surname’s zupu from my ancestral village. ...As to which online genealogy sites I use, familysearch.com is probably the most enduring, but we need to source the genealogies to the family tree to fight wrongful changes…. How do you source the genealogies to the family trees with FamilySearch.com? I also have problems with ‘one tree’ concepts such as FamilySearch.org and Geni.com that let others modify and change your family trees. I understand the concept of having free flow of information into and out of the family trees online. I have had non-relative users change my parents and in-law’s names and leave no sources or reasons. You cannot remove your family trees after uploading (donating) the information. I have cease monitoring these sites. In order to provide privacy for my relatives, I change certain relative’s names to only Chinese characters to obfuscate identities. I hypothesize changing the names makes it harder for nefarious stalkers to use any information for identity theft. So like you, I have experimented with many online family tree and have many trees abandoned throughout the internet for various reasons. Some family members detest having their information spread on various sites. I have since become MUCH more careful with which sites I experiment. What I look for on any (online or onsite) genealogy program: - It must handle Chinese Characters (unicode)
- Allow displaying of surname first when exporting
- Displays on screen and reproduces multiple names when exporting to GEDCOM
- Follow the GEDCOM standard giving the highest potential of transferring data accurately. Every family tree program uses their own dialect of GEDCOM. Therefore, the GEDCOM export files are not standard.
- Have longevity. Business plans and websites come and go. You want to bequeath your work to your descendents accurately. I agree with chinesesurname assessment about the duration of FamilySearch.org. The world wonders if Microsoft DOCX and Adobe pdf (documents), 1990’s jpeg (images), mp3 (audio), and video formats, will still be accessible by our descendents. For example, there are currently major changes in image format sized with iOs using HEIF (High Efficiency Image Format) as opposed to jpeg.
- Security: double edged sword. You want your information to be ‘cousin bait’ to find new relatives via searching your information, but you want to protect your participants from potential identity theft.
- Allow sourcing: genealogy is gossip unless adequately sourced. Easy entry of sources is vital.
- Face tagging. We all have photos of multiple Chinese elders from a gathering, whose identities need to be preserved and reproduced for the next generation
- Program search engine (like internet based Bing and Google) need to find both simplified and traditional characters which have the same meaning. People's Republic of China is becoming more dominant. Our data as traditional characters will not be searchable unless the technology of search engines advance.
- Magic number is 300. Usually you can manually enter 300 names easily into a family tree program. That should include your grandparents and/or great grandparents as the top of the family tree. Therefore, try entering up to 300 names as you try different programs. Over 300 names, it is easier to use data export (GEDCOM) to transfer your family tree to another trial program.
Final thoughts:
- For most online genealogy programs, you donate your information. With MyHeritage, Ancestry, Geni, you will not be able to later erase your data. This fits their business model increasing their baseline database.
- You can always print to paper. However, transferring information can be a data entry tedium.
- You don’t necessarily need an online program unless you want to collaborate with relatives from afar.
...By the way, my ChineseSurnames site which I transferred from Yahoo Geocities to Rootsweb seems to be down, at least for now. It is currently uploaded to chinesesurname.co.nf/Thanks for your work on ChineseSurnames.
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Post by chinesesurname on Mar 12, 2018 17:44:28 GMT -5
Doug, I am in the process of having my Gangmei Genealogy added. What I put on familysearch publicly has been Chinese characters exclusively, except to the extent that there are Familysearch sources, like census records, which are reasonably obvious. So I just entered the Chinese names manually. I haven't sourced the other lines yet, as I am uncertain how publicly I can generally share the research I received from Henry's nephew. I am sure, if there is contention I can share the particular justification. Right now, I intend to source my direct male line from the 49th generation founder of the Look Wai House back to generation 1 using the General Genealogy. Then I can do some simple things, like remove the extra father relationship of 伍員子胥(WU YUAN ZI XU) to his uncle. ...Ron
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Post by NgLiuYin on Jan 2, 2021 15:16:34 GMT -5
Happy 2021 Everyone! I’m inspired to start the new year with my genealogy journey and hope this thread is still relevant. I’m from the 伍 Ng clan of Taishan Look Wai 綠圍house. chinesesurname and gckimm , I found your site freepages.rootsweb.com/~chinesesurname/family/sueysun.html documenting our clan’s history very informative. We’re probably related Before my dad passed away he gave me his copy of the General Genealogy of the Ng Clan of Ling Nahm《嶺南伍氏闔族總譜》and his written notes documenting many generations of male ancestors. I also have many of his original writings in Chinese, calligraphy etc. At chinesesurname ’s suggestion I entered my male line into familysearch.org and I was excited to get a match going all the way back to 伍子胥, the founding father of the Ng clan. At this point, I have 3 asks of this board: 1. How do I share my tree in familysearch.org with my family for online collaboration? Even if I only wanted to share a pdf, the print option only allows up to 7 generations to be viewable. Is there a way to export my tree and then import into into another software for collaboration? What’s the best software for that? 2. Does anyone know if the jupu I mentioned above is online? 3. Is there a software/program/app that can transcribe chinese handwriting into text? 4. Can anyone suggest a genealogy blogging platform for easy sharing of stories while allowing family members to comment and contribute content? Blogger and Wordpress seem to be most popular. Most of us have minimal programming skills. Thanks for any help in advance!
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Post by Doug 周 on Jan 2, 2021 17:47:48 GMT -5
1. How do I share my tree in familysearch.org with my family for online collaboration? Even if I only wanted to share a pdf, the print option only allows up to 7 generations to be viewable. Is there a way to export my tree and then import into into another software for collaboration? What’s the best software for that?Most people use familysearch.org to archive their research and be done with it. To capture the information on familysearch.org, generally you will have to go page by page to screen-scrape the analog images. There is no automatic download. You will not want to use familysearch.org to collaborate and have family members curate their branches of the tree. You run into privacy issues and IMAO that is not the strength of the website. I would recommend that you build your family tree. It depends on your budget. There are commercial sites like MyHeritage.com , Geni.com , Ancestry.com , Wikitrees.com . Many have Chinese genealogy issues like displaying surnames western style rather than Chinese style, inability to display and search the multiple given names, etc. Generally with these sites, you will not be able to close down your family trees ie they own the information and will use that to attract other customers. Another option is to host your own genealogy sites. There are programs like The Next Generation (TNG) and webtrees. Again, the former will not display multiple given names. The strongest option is webtrees www.webtrees.net/index.php/en/ for Chinese genealogy. 2. Does anyone know if the jupu I mentioned above is online?You will have to search the sites in Chinese. 3. Is there a software/program/app that can transcribe chinese handwriting into text?It's hard if you are trying to digitize handwriting since that is penmanship dependent. See my post in this section: Online Chinese Simplified and Traditional OCR siyigenealogy.proboards.com/thread/2999/online-chinese-simplified-traditional-ocr if your Chinese is typeset. You will probably have to commission someone. Or else, you can write the characters in Pleco or MDBG 4. Can anyone suggest a genealogy blogging platform for easy sharing of stories while allowing family members to comment and contribute content? Blogger and Wordpress seem to be most popular. Most of us have minimal programming skills.You can combine Wordpress with webtrees. See: www.snwsjz.com/ . My profile has my url. Another user has kerrychoy.id.au/tree/damperinawok LMK what you want to do and I will get more specific.
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Post by LJ on Jan 3, 2021 8:24:16 GMT -5
Thanks genekl That is what I like about participating on this Forum. Everyone shares and contributes their discovery of new resources. I have been waiting for years for the Mainland institutions to open their archives to online access. The Genealogy Resources under Geni's China Portal has an incorrect link to the National Library of China. It looks like the correct link is www.nlc.cn/ . I need Google Translate to explore the site, else have a Chinese literate person help me. English site for the National Library: www.nlc.cn/newen/Chinese Genealogy Database: It has collected 1,124 titles of genealogies of Song, Yuan, Ming and Qing Dynasties. Each title is made according to the original copy of rare books, with all information reserved, including tables, diagrams, and marks However, the link timed out at the time of this posting. Here is a description of their physical collection available in person via closed stacks: Genealogies are the documents which record the pedigrees and deeds of a kinship family, considered as one of the 3 document types of China (national history, chronicles and genealogies), which are valuable humanity materials. The NLC has begun to collect genealogies from the whole society in 1928. Up to present, there have been 105,000 volumes of new and old genealogies, among which 98,000 volumes are thread-bounded volumes. Besides, the NLC has started to receive the donations of newly compiled genealogies since 2001. Chronicles includes professional chronicles, institution chronicles, and specified chronicles. Professional chronicles reflect the development history of a certain specialty or community; institution chronicles reflects the development history of a certain institution; specified chronicles focus on a specified object. You can look up genealogies in Genealogies & Old Chronicles Reading Room. I may be wrong and the genealogies are not available online Hopefully someone more Chinese language literate can confirm. Happy New Year, fellow Forum members! Happy 2021! I am now catching up on this thread. genekl and Doug 周, thank you for the information about the National Library of China. Doug 周, I just went to the Chinese Genealogy Database and must report that three years after your post about it, it is still not available online. I'm wondering why this database is called a database if it's not available online. Best regards, LJeung
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Post by LJ on Jan 3, 2021 8:31:58 GMT -5
Doug, I am in the process of having my Gangmei Genealogy added. What I put on familysearch publicly has been Chinese characters exclusively, except to the extent that there are Familysearch sources, like census records, which are reasonably obvious. So I just entered the Chinese names manually. I haven't sourced the other lines yet, as I am uncertain how publicly I can generally share the research I received from Henry's nephew. I am sure, if there is contention I can share the particular justification. Right now, I intend to source my direct male line from the 49th generation founder of the Look Wai House back to generation 1 using the General Genealogy. Then I can do some simple things, like remove the extra father relationship of 伍員子胥(WU YUAN ZI XU) to his uncle. ...Ron Thanks for the update on your research, chinesesurname. When I have the chance, I'll look at the new lines that you entered at FamilySearch, especially the new Wu and Guan lines. As you know, I have Wu/Ng ancestors, but I also happen to have Guan/Kwan ancestors: my paternal grandmother's mother was a Guan/Kwan, and her name was 關玉蘭 [Guan Yulan / Kwan Yuk Lan). I don't know where she came from. I just know that when she was married to my paternal grandmother's father, 司徒俊耀 (Seto Chun Yiu / Situ Junyao), she lived in her husband's village of 潮龍里 (Chaolongli / Chiu Lung Lay) in 赤坎 (Chikan / Chik Hom), 開平 (Kaiping / Hoi Ping). Best regards, LJeung
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