Douglas, the booklet has arrived! I will now organise myself to get some help translating it. In the meantime I will study closely to see if I can recognise any of the characters from what I have gleaned from this wonderful forum. I look forward to identifying the words in the chinese version of the address on the envelope as well. Thank you so much for sending it on. I even love the stamps! So ... now you have me intrigued with your "little surprise" you are bringing home. My days just keep getting better and better ..... other than losing at tennis today! We are all very excited about coming to Sydney in January. Uncle Denis is particularly looking forward to it. He can't get over how much you have done for us. He just wishes he was 20 years younger to be able to take advantage of your discoveries and follow through further for himself. And it is not only what you have found for us in particular, but all the additional observations and stories that you have related so well, like today's snippets, that have kept us glued to the "Excellent Adventures" saga. Again, again and again ..... thank you! Lolly
....I will now organise myself to get some help translating it. In the meantime I will study closely to see if I can recognise any of the characters from what I have gleaned...
Don't forget to write about this next stage of your adventure in genealogy: what you learned and what you had to do to prepare for DL to get your zupu/jiapu; Share with us your meeting with DL in January in both pictures and words; Write how you plan to study your booklet;
In this forum, we all learn from each other. Those of us who give advice need the feedback about what works for this generation of genealogists.
Post by douglaslam on Dec 11, 2013 22:29:46 GMT -5
I'm home after an overnight flight on board a still fairly new A380 Airbus. I was seated forward of the starboard wing. The two Rolls Royce engines were huge, even the wing on just one side was an enormous expanse. Never mind the flatbed, sky lounge, shower, in-flight piano bar and a gym even. They mean little to economy class passengers. Don't think I'll ever get to see one, much less use one. The cost is just not worth it, and i don't go for that fly buy nonsense. Airline food agrees with me, in fact my neighbours gave me two extra croissants and desserts. Don't believe in leaving food behind either.
Just when i thought I was ready to master my PC, download from my memory card and USB stick, upload on this board, lo and behold, I had forgotten it all. A month away was just too long. I couldn't find the bit of paper that I have written down the step by step process. There is truth in the saying that you can't teach an old dog new tricks.
Lolly, I wanted you to receive something sent to you from China and I wrote the address in part in Chinese to make it special. Your Tai Chi friends can no doubt unravel the mystery for you.
DJ, yesterday morning I went with my auntie (the one in Dongguan) to a monthly morning yum cha meeting. I did report on it last year. There were eight women, all from our part of the county Longdu, speaking our dialect. At 66 years of age, I was the youngest and living away from China. Yet, I spoke the dialect and remembered weird phrases better than most. One woman from LTW also knew the father and sons we talked of often. There is a third son who works in Shekki, and you had to go pass her family home to get to the their house. She also told me something which is probably contentious; that Joe Shoong had no children of his own. The plot thickens.
I think Shoong's 3 children were born in the USA, so there should be birth certificates. This reminds me of our Chinese ancestors claims in the USA National Archives about the number of their paper sons. So many Chinese American genealogist accept those statements at face value.
However, please retell the other lady's story.
This also refers to Fay Chee's and laohuaqiao's discussion about adoption in this thread: Common Ancestor with Surname Chen (陳/陈) click. This is the reason why some family historians dislike the term 'genealogy'. It is not about the genes, but about the family relationships.
DL, looking forward to your future post as you gather your media together.
A quick search on Ancestry.com has this amongst other records for the family:
1930 US Census
1920 US Census
California Birth Index, 1905-1995 Name: Betty L Shoong Birth Date: 9 Aug 1918 Gender: Female Mother's Maiden Name: Hoo Birth County: San Francisco Source Citation: Birthdate: 9 Aug 1918; Birth County: San Francisco.
California Birth Index, 1905-1995 Name: Doris J Shoong Birth Date: 20 Dec 1919 Gender: Female Mother's Maiden Name: Soohoo Birth County: San Francisco
California Birth Index, 1905-1995 Name: Milton W Shoong Birth Date: 18 Aug 1922 Gender: Male Mother's Maiden Name: Soohoo Birth County: San Francisco Source Citation: Birthdate: 18 Aug 1922; Birth County: San Francisco. Source Information: Ancestry.com. California Birth Index, 1905-1995 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc, 2005. Original data: State of California. California Birth Index, 1905-1995. Sacramento, CA, USA: State of California Department of Health Services, Center for Health Statistics
U.S., Social Security Death Index, 1935-Current Name: Milton W. Shoong SSN: 553-20-4860 Last Residence: 91402 Panorama City, Los Angeles, California, USA Born: 18 Aug 1922 Died: 30 Jun 2000 State (Year) SSN issued: California (1952) Source Citation: Number: 553-20-4860; Issue State: California; Issue Date: 1952.
California, Death Index, 1940-1997 Name: Bette Shoong Bird Social Security #: 572144995 Gender: Male Birth Date: 25 Aug 1918 Birth Place: California Death Date: 9 Dec 1996 Death Place: Alameda Father's Surname: Shoong
Thanks to Fay Chee and DJ for clearing up any misunderstanding I may have in regard to Joe Shoong's children. I think the woman I met and people in China in general simply had no way or not old enough to know much about the man. I remember reading Doris went to China before WWll to learn Chinese.
DJ; 東玖, the father is having his major birthday celebrations sometimes this month. If any of his grandchildren in contact with you by email, don't forget to pass on your birthday wishes. Depending on the generation, he is a brother or uncle to you. Calling him mister is too formal and not "family" like. I have the son 林燦's mobile number, if you want it I can pass on to you. Tomorrow, I'll get on to your story.
Today, I am putting on Lolly's story for all to share.
I thought Lolly's ancestral village was small in population. Not so, it is home to about four thousand people, that does not include the large number of internal migrants, who outnumber the locals. On our first walk to the village, we did not go pass the distinctive gateway. It was on the second visit, after our lunch that we went pass the gateway on a bus. It was too late. I was keen to walk to link up with a direct bus, but one of my companions was not into landmarks, antiquities or walking when he could get free travel as a senior.
This is my selection of photos over the two visits.
This is a kindergarten, very nicely painted on the outside with the two characters 聖獅 in traditional form clearly visible. Lolly should know it by now. 聖獅 Sing Sze, Holy Lion is so-called because of a certain landmark which resembles a lion with its head up and resting on the ground. I think childcare facilities in China are quite good. I have not heard of anyone telling me how hard or costly it is to have pre-school or junior primary kids looked after for working parents.
This is the village administration office we were welcomed in. These days, every large village would have one. There is no village hall where the elders gather to go to in Sing Sze. It was completely destroyed by the Red Guards under Mao. Many village halls managed to survive Mao's mad attack by being put to use as grain storage, animal shelter, office or workshop.
Many of the elderly people do come here, it is an activity centre for the old age. The people mostly play mahjong or talk. We would have come here for help if we weren't referred to the very capable village official.
This river front promenade is opposite the office and next to the activity centre. It would be very popular in the warmer months. The river would be polluted without question.But it does not look beyond help. Like most waterways, it falls silent to boat traffic. I can only imagine what it must once have been, a lifeline of the villages for transport, irrigation, and drinking water. I think there was once a rice mill close by taking advantage of the waterways.
The village official showed me an artist's impression of a soon-to-be-built village hall in traditional architecture. It is going to be a multi-purpose hall catering for modern needs like a library, and use by other clans and residents. The funding drive received a big boost from a villager who has business interests in Macau.
Lolly, this is the couple most closely related to Andrew Sr. in the village. The man is Chuck Fay's uncle's great-great grandson. They showed genuine interest in discovering their Australian links. Nothing much is known about Andrew Sr.'s brothers. I believe more can be done.
A family gathering on the occasion of a wedding. Just image trying to remember all their names.
This is the couple's large home, which is on a corner position. The couplet tells us there was a wedding and a daughter-in-law welcomed into the family. Most married couples still live in with their parents or in-laws. It is a tradition changed little with the march of time.
A large outdoor area for entertainment and storage. The family represents China rising middle class. It is doing very well, the couple's children are all tertiary educated and holding well-paid jobs.
This house is standing on land where Andrew's house had once stood. The building was completely destroyed in a typhoon.
I think this was once the couple's home, which is now a rental property or left unoccupied.
This building is over a century old, and belongs to the family. Not sure if Andrew had seen it. It was a shop, yes, a lolly shop, which was made on the premisis.
This is the rotting interior.
This is a street shrine. You'll find many of them through the villages. Remember I said your father might have gone through the ritual of having a lantern lit and hung in the village hall. Sometimes, street shrine like this is used for such a purpose if a suitable hall is not available.
We are enjoying our lunch. Only the wife came.. It was the coldest day of my visit, The outdoor by the river bank setting was a little inappropriate. We are well protected from the strong breeze. There is a pot of goat meat, and more to come.
This is a proud Pang ancestor who was a high imperial court official. Pang is a popular name found throughout China, though not as numerous as the Chan, Wong, or Lee.
The most noteworthy Pang of recent years is Peng Dehuai. Peng was a senior of China's Ten Marshals. He was fearless,honest and trustworthy. He dared to tell Mao he was leading the country to destruction during the Great Leap Forward famine.. He also led China's forces in the Korean War, much against his better judgement not to take on the USA, because an impoverished China was in no position to wage a war for someone else. Mao's own son was amongst Peng's staff. But he defied Peng's order to evacuate and was killed. Mao junior was killed while trying to retrieve some food, not died in battle.
Mao never forgave Peng for the two incidents. It was one of the reasons Mao started the Cultural Revolution, so that he could purge his critics. Peng Dehuai died a long, painful and humiliating death under Mao. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peng_Dehuai
Last Edit: Dec 13, 2013 21:31:11 GMT -5 by douglaslam
Hi Douglas. Welcome home! Looks like you found your little page of instructions .....or maybe you can teach an old dog new tricks! I am hoping that is the case as I have a lot of new tricks to learn to be able to fully appreciate all that has been done for me. Your photo uploads have worked a treat.
I took my booklet and envelope to tai chi yesterday, and my friends were able to tell me that the envelope is addressed to Mrs Pang, Victoria, Australia, and that you were the sender. They sometimes struggle a little with their English, so they did not elaborate any further.
I have read and re-read your post several times, and been cross checking your pictures with those in the booklet you sent. The distinctive gateway is well represented in the booklet, so your companion is forgiven!
So now I have also a picture of my third cousins (by our genealogy guidelines) and their family. It would be interesting to identify with them all those family members. The whereabouts of Andrew's brothers and their families is also another line to pursue ..... perhaps at a later date!
Thank you for the pictures of family sites of residence and also the old "lolly shop". I had to laugh at the fact that it was a lolly shop .... given my forum tag is "lolly"! Would you believe that my father, Andrew jnr, was a confectioner by trade? He was manager for many many years of Newman's Mastermade Chocolates and Candies, based in Richmond, Melbourne. I think I still have one of his old notebooks with recipes for the chocolate, fillings and candies. I spent several Christmas school breaks working at the factory packing the boxes with the hand dipped chocolates, and also wrapping the candies ready for packing. It was good pocket money for me, but I had to make sure I more than pulled my weight as "the boss' daughter". Got to eat plenty of very good chocolate though!
So .... my spaghetti brain is so overloaded with all this wonderful new information. I need to set out a plan of attack to tackle it all in an orderly fashion. Doug has set me a "homework schedule", and I fully intend to complete it and contribute something back to this wonderful forum. My husband is already helping me to work out OCR and sites for translation. I have skimmed Doug's recommended sites, and will hopefully be making good use of them. A resultant new thread should be appearing in 2014!
I have enlarged the Sing Sze characters and printed them off to ensure that they are recognisable to me ..... I think the old dogs reference might have some application here!
Very much looking forward to reading and viewing the rest of your stories from this trip. Mine has been a revelation far in excess of what any of my family (especially Uncle Denis) could have hoped for.
Post by douglaslam on Dec 13, 2013 22:17:16 GMT -5
Lolly, my future son-in-law helped me and I can take it from there on. Newman's must have been one of those small confectioners that thrived until recent years. I guess it'd probably suffered the same fate as Darrell Lea did just recently. My wife once worked for Allen Lifesavers, until it went to Melbourne.
Just when I thought everything was ship shape Bristol fashion,last night our desktop completely crashed, dead, kaput. I now have to resort to use the laptop which my wife uses to watch TV soap opera downloaded online by a family friend. No, my wife is not tech-savvy at all. She follows a step by step written instructions. I had to commandeer the laptop for the time being until I can sort out what to do with the desktop. It is a legacy of my daughter who is on her third year in Japan. Another family friend will come this evening to sort out my problems. I have other photo uploads for non-members.
I did not address you as Mrs. it was Miss. Your Tai Chi friends were a little confused.
Sorry DJ, you'll have to wait a little longer. Not sure whether to repair the desktop( bought in 2007 I think,) or buy a new / used one. A hard call to make. Should have gone against my daughter's advice and bought myself a Samsung or Apple Tablet from a second hand shop in China for about RMB 2K. Suggestions anyone?
Hi Douglas - My computer died 6 weeks ago - I went and got a new hard drive. I got it from a person who repairs computers - not a shop. He was able to get it at wholesale and on sell it to me with a small mark up. If your monitor is ok, no need to get one. Just a nuisance if you have lost all your photos, and your favourites.
Nice photos and stories - can't wait til you get on line again.