|
Post by Doug 周 on Nov 16, 2012 3:35:41 GMT -5
To Doug Joe, I brought up Joe Shoong in our conversation, one woman claimed she knew LTW well and attended Joe Shoong School. She was sure Joe Shoong did not have any children, and that his wife was killed by Japanese bombing. Is she to be believed? I'll sort it out for myself. This MIGHT have been a second wife of Shoong who was killed. He had 2 daughters and 1 son, based on the memoirs of Shoong's second daughters. This memoir is the copy you have from the Univ. CA Berkeley oral history archive. However, that memoir had no mention of another wife.
|
|
|
Post by FayChee on Nov 16, 2012 9:49:16 GMT -5
Douglas, since I will only have 4 or 5 days in China, and my main interest is to visit my dad's Ancestral village and family graves, maybe I should book my flight directly to Guangzhou and skip HK? Later when I have more time, I'll do the big tour thing...
Is there any advantage to flying into HK first? The cost for the flight is about the same on the Orbitz website.
I wonder how I will be treated at my village....will they accept me or ignore me? Guess I'll find out either way.........
Is fish air bladder a delicacy? I imagine if you fry it, it could be a crunchy treat....or maybe stuff it with crabmeat, dip it in batter, then fry it.........I think I'd better have my breakfast now as it seems I am hungry.
Fay Chee
|
|
|
Post by laohuaqiao on Nov 16, 2012 13:19:32 GMT -5
FayChee, Kaiping City's urban center is at the junction of the river and its tributary going north, shown at the lower left of Tyuti's map. And, your father's village is south southwest of Kaiping center, which puts it near the lower left corner of that map.
|
|
|
Post by FayChee on Nov 16, 2012 17:00:37 GMT -5
Hi Laohuaqiao, Thanks for the directions on that map. I guess I should forget the Ferry as I won't have much time to waste on this trip. Perhaps after I retire I can take a more leisurely trip.
What do you think about flying directly to Guangzhou rather than Hong Kong? It costs about the same....are you planning a trip in 2013? Fay Chee
|
|
|
Post by douglaslam on Nov 18, 2012 4:47:36 GMT -5
I am back in my village. I am going to my village brother's small birthday party tonight. I'll be seeing Ming, and work out our travel plan for the next few days. I am sure I'll be onto kaluosima / Carlos' quest to find his China-side of the family tomorrow. I am excited just thinking about it. Then, I'll attend to my other Chungshan enquires, hopefully by the week's end, I'd be ready to go to Hoiping to find Fay Chee's ancestral home. I spent two nights in Chang Gar Bin. For those of you who are familiar with Canadian author Denise Chong's book The Concubine's Children, which I read twice, her en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denise_Chong maternal grandparents' village is now a boom town, a big industrial centre. No one could have envisaged the transformation. I always try to go the way of the locals, squeezing into packed buses with my luggage, observating the locals, completely immersed with the crowd, and be invisible as it were. Fay Chee, are you comtemplating going to China soon? You hardly have time enough to get over the jet lag by giving yourself just four days. Let me sound out the place for you first. I'll call Henry's nephew for a little social and advice. I'd recommend the same for you if you are not going with a Sze Yup native from the U.S. Have no fear, you'll not be ignored. I am sure you'll be embraced by the villagers as one of their daughters once the ice is broken. Going direct to Guangzhou might be the way to go because if you engaged Shi Cheng, Henry' nephew, he could meet you at the airport and guide you every inch of the way. It won't be a hit and miss affair. Fish air bladders? They are sold separately and a little more expensive. I don't have a particular preference how it is done. Watch this space tomorrow, I am hoping for some positive news for our friend Carlos from Peru. Look out Sanxiang, here we come !!
|
|
|
Post by tyuti1668 on Nov 18, 2012 8:30:12 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by FayChee on Nov 18, 2012 10:25:30 GMT -5
Douglas, I am hoping to go some time in April, maybe mid-April from the 16th to the 23rd. I was just estimating that minus the travel/recuperation time, I would have 4 solid days. It is possible that my nephew here in the USA (Shik Szeto), will be in Hong Kong around that time, nevertheless, I was also thinking of asking Henry's nephew to be my travel guide so that I am not a burden to his family's vacation plans. If he is in HK, I will have him meet me at dad's Ancestral home.
I was not going to make any plans until after you return Douglas, as your pictures and narrative may be enough to satisfy me until I fully retire from work and can take a longer trip and not rush.
Have a great time at the party! I found the picture of Ming and the bone cleaner from your previous trip.
Fay Chee
|
|
|
Post by FayChee on Nov 18, 2012 10:27:58 GMT -5
Tyuti1668, thank you for the timely bus schedule from the Airport to Taishan!
Fay Chee
|
|
|
Post by Henry on Nov 18, 2012 11:53:09 GMT -5
Fay Chee,
My nephew cannot cross into Hong Kong - he can meet you at the Gongbei border crossing in Zhuhai or if you take a bus to Taishan City - he can meet you at the bus station.
If you need more details, contact me directly : Tomclan@Gmail.com
Regards,
Henry
|
|
|
Post by douglaslam on Nov 19, 2012 8:51:59 GMT -5
This morning, I set off with my two travel companions for kaluosima / Carlos' ancestral village in Sanxiang. We went first to Shekkei, Shiqi ʯáª, the provincial town. As usual, we stopped for yum cha first. It was a very ordinary experience, hardly worth the 80 RMB it cost. Then, we found the the right bus route to Sanxiang. The trip took just over an hour and cost me 6. My companions travelled free because they are local county senior citizens. If Carlos' grandfather were alive today, he would not recognised the township at all.
We got off the bus and found the local market which Carlos put on the forum, and aptly called Little Market. Ming one of my travel companions and navigator remembers thirty years ago and earlier, he used to get up at three in the morning rode his bicycle to Little Market, bought a piglet, to raise in his front yard to supplement the family income. It was a common thing to raise a pig or two in every village household. We found the Sanxiang office, a man told us the village Tanggan we were after is in fact a few kilometres back and in an old section of town. We had to go back.
Back we went, and found the village Tanggan without any difficulties. The village office was closed for lunch until 2 P.M. We thought it was a good idea to have lunch ourselves. In this older section of town, we could not find a restaurant that served Sanxiang's famous ¡°lai fun¡± noodles and roast goose. We settled for a Hakka restaurant, and with drinks, it cost 115RMB. The office was just across the road from the restaurant. We introduced ourselves and mentioned Carlos' grandfather. The two women and one man who received us did not know Carlos' grandfather at all.
To recap: Carlos' grandfather Ma Kuen went to Peru in 1929, leaving his young wife and an infant daughter Ma Fung Yee behind. Ma Kuen married again in Peru and never returned to China. Ma Fung Yee had four sons of her own. Other than that Carlos knows very little of his China-side of the family. Every member of Carlos' family in Peru is supportive of his search for the links in China. It is a classic case of blood is thicker than water. Carlos sent me many photos to make my search easier.
It was the photos that save the day. The people in the office immediately recognised Ma Kuen's younger brother's three sons in a photo well over fifty years old. From then on it was smooth sailing. The two women in the office got on the phone, and a few minutes later a seventy-something old man appeared on a bicycle. The man is one of Ma Kuen's three nephews. He was pleased, the office people, and we were equally jubilant. Carlos has his links in China established.
Ma Fung Yee's whereabouts is unknown or if she is still alive at all. Her four sons are all in Macao, but no telephone numbers at hand. We do have two of Ma Kuen's nephews contact numbers. It was a great result.
Sanxiang is in fact a country centre (zhen) comprising three villages. Greater Sanxiang has seventeen villages in all, Tanggan the village we are interested has three sub-villages, homes to the Ma, Siu, and Wong clans.
The village officials also told us earlier in the year, four Australians, who didn't look Chinese at all. came to the same office with the help of the government-ran Overseas Chinese Office and found their Chinese roots. It is a sure sign people are coming out to reclaim their Chinese heritage
We left the village office well-satisfied with our effort for the day. The sense of satisfaction for yielding something concrete is indescribable. It was not until we were well underway on the bus that I realised I didn't asked to be taken to Carlos' ancestral home.
For those who are interested what a day's outing like this would cost, here is the breakdown: transport, just about all on myself, 22, food 195, 1 for an old beggar at the restaurant. The total? 218 RMB, a very small amount for a very large dose of satisfaction and happiness.
Fay Chee, if this is a sign of things to come. We can do better in Hoiping. I contacted Henry's nephew already of our imminent visit. I plan to spend at least two nights in Taicheng. Tomorrow, it is Sai Ah and Shekki. Shekki is for someone I had met just once over lunch. He is not a Forum member.
|
|
|
Post by FayChee on Nov 19, 2012 9:28:00 GMT -5
Hi Douglas, it is so exciting to read your posts! What a great story for Carlos, I can imagine how wonderful he feels right now. Henry suggested that I email my dad's village information to Tan Shi Cheng so that he can call ahead of time to see if there is a Zupu, for when (or if) I travel in April. Maybe I should send him the information now if it will help?
I'll bet that Carlos is planning his trip now to see his Ancestral home..........lucky guy!
Fay Chee
|
|
|
Post by FayChee on Nov 19, 2012 10:35:54 GMT -5
Douglas, here is an update on the family names that may not have been in my previous note: The chief's wife's phone number is 011 86+136 3044 5104 China, Guangdong, Kaiping City, Da Jin village committee, Chao Yang village. My father: Kai Yip Seto, born 1894, immigrated to USA in 1910 at age 15. He had two Chinese wives, #1 was Fa Leung in 1914, and #2 was Fa Chan in 1923. Fa Leung had a nephew named Bak Shing (died). Kai Yips father was Yau Tak Seto, born about 1870. Kai's children by his first wife, Fa Leung, were Wai Gwin Seto and Yan Pui (adopted). Kai Yips bother's wife was Kung. She adopted Yan Hung (wife Siu Cheung), they live in Malaysia, and Yuet Ngor (husband Bill Cheung), live in Kaiping. Fay Chee Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by kaluosima on Nov 19, 2012 14:56:50 GMT -5
im am happyy , thanks so much douglas and thanks so much for help me in this forum .
you help me so much , translating and watching the photos that i posted .
carlos
|
|
|
Post by helen on Nov 19, 2012 22:30:12 GMT -5
Fantastic Douglas - you are a wonder - and great at doing all the groundwork for our fellow forum/family seekers. Well done -
|
|
|
Post by douglaslam on Nov 20, 2012 8:27:44 GMT -5
Once more we started the day off breakfasting at a different restaurant. This time it was a big, well-known one by the name of Nam Hoi Fishing Village ( tyuti1668 would know the one I am talking about.) The service was good, food tasty, and the bill was 109 RMB. Bus there cost 2.
The bus to Sai Ah cost only 2. Even Ming got a little confused, we ended up walking a good thirty mins., just minutes before lunch at noon. Lunch time is normally between 12 to 2. We had no choice but to find a price to sit down to while away time. Then, we went back to the same restaurant we ate out last year, and sat until it was about 2. The cost : 145.
Kin, better known to us as mugenpower168 is a fine young professional from my city of Sydney. We first met when we greeted Henry on his visit to Sydney in Dec. 2010. We met again when a Canadian Ph D researcher interviewed me as a part of her thesis. We all ate out and saw a few of Sydney's many attractions.
Kin, there is also a Tung (East) Ah, next to your ancestral village of Sai (West) Ah. Your village dialect is very similar to mine. I can make out what the villagers are talking about. They, too, would have a good idea where I came from. A similar tongue closes the gap between people.
We called the office after lunch, a man there called the person who left me with his name and a contact number from last year. Mr. Chu from last year appeared, and more people were rounded up including a Hung, a eighty years plus old man. At first they didn't know who I was talking about when I mentioned your father's name. It was because of the intonation of his given name: I used the Cantonese pronunciation of Siu, not Chiu as it should have been in our dialect. When that was corrected, laughter broke out immediately. Everyone's face lit up.The old man is your next door neighbour, he used to play with your father when they were boys. There was no mistake.
We carried on talking for quite a while before we went to look for your house and find the person with the key. the house(S) are not occupied. If you look at my last year's posting, you should see a photo showing a hovel by a pond with a satellite dish on top. Your property is opposite the hovels.
Your house was built by funds remitted by your uncles from Macao before China was even ready for economic reform. Your father smuggled to Macao with one of his brothers in 1960. The old man was a village functionary then, he knew of your father's escape plan but chose to do nothing. It is a big adjoining house with separate entrances, and a common kitchen. Four small traditional dwellings were knocked down to make it possible. It has a second storey. There are many bedrooms. Strangely, no one could tell me who lived there if at all. But I did see one bedroom with pillows, blanket and mosquito netting. Who's been sleeping in your house? There is a western style bathroom next to the kitchen, with a bath tub, sit-down toilet and hand basin, all in pink.
That's not all, separated by a laneway, there is a second one storey house built on land used to be your vegetable patch. It was built for your father's older sister's family. It is also unoccupied. That's your piece of China, Kin. No one dares to do anything about disposing the property without consulting you. You are one of the rightful heirs. You also have an auntie in the US.
The old man said your grandfather had a fiery temperament, and used to beat your grandmother. He was a remarkable gambler so much so that he gambled with the invading Japanese troops. That didn't make him a traitor because that Japanese unit wasn't particularly brutal, he was not a collaborator. By engaging them in gambling, he probably saved many villagers' lives.
Your great grandfather was given to raise as a son by your gggparents. There are portraits of your gggparents, a photo of your grandmother when she was a young woman, and a pencil sketch when she was older. There are many faded colour photos but none showing your father. I think I did most of the talking and inspecting. Photos upon my return to Sydney and at my daughter's pleasure.
You must see it for yourself, and the villagers want to know about you. As for the Yuen members of the village, I mentioned one man I have known for many years in Sydney, they all know him. Sai Ah village is well represented in Sydney, and many other countries. It was a very happy visit. the people were genuinely happy to help. Mr. Chu for example, his father, a mixed-blood son, was sent back to China from Peru when he was five years old.
After Sai Ah, it was too late for Shekki. Total expenses today : 267.5
--------------------------------
Carlos, if you want me to go back to Tanggan your village, to take photos of your ancestral home, I am happy to oblige provided the house is still standing. I have other photos to show you.
Doug Joe, its LTW tomorrow. The task is a lot simpler but I am not confident of finding out what you want. We shall see.
Fay Chee, Your best bet is to engage Henry's nephew to help you and fly direct to Guangzhou. I'll brief Shi Cheng of your particular case next week. I thought of meeting or helping you, but April clashes with my Ching Ming engagement in Sydney.
tyuti1668, my dinner party is on Friday 23, at ÐÂ¼Ç from about 6 P.M. If you are in Chungshan, please come and be my special guest.
Helen, I am sure you had a good time in China. I also saw for myself Gwa Leng and got inside that very special and unique diaolou. It'd have been extra special if we could meet up. Next time.
|
|