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Post by davidchang on Jul 6, 2010 22:50:28 GMT -5
Hi--I am looking for jiapu and zupu online or on microfilm. I am very frustrated because I joined Ancestry.com to look at theirs, and they have many that I want to examine, but the links do not connect to the files (scans of page) for many of the books. Ancestry.com tech support apologizes, but says other issues are more urgent, so these will take a long time to get up online. One can buy them book by book at jiapu.com, but that gets pretty expensive, because I am interested in many families, not just one. What is my best option? One family I am quite interested in is the Chang / 鄭 family of Zhongshan / Chungshan, whose jiapu is entitled 郑太崖祖房谱. I would really appreciate any help! (To correctly view Chinese characters please select [View], [Encoding], and [Unicode] options.)
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Post by Doug 周 on Jul 7, 2010 15:37:21 GMT -5
(To correctly view Chinese characters please select [View], [Encoding], and [Unicode] options.) Welcome to the forum davidcheng, This is not the answer you want. I make these comments and pose these questions for the sake of others on the forum. First, I did not know that Jiapu.cn sold jiapu's and zupu's. When I poked around, the price ranged from 58 to 160 yuan. However, there was no way to examine the contents before purchasing them. Even using google translate, with my lack of Chinese language skills, I could not understand what these jiapu's/zupu's represented. About a year ago, when jiapu.cn was still in the beta stages, you could view the jiapu's on line. The image below was for the Chang 鄭 for Zhongshan 中山 (if my recollection was correct). At that time you could click on the links on the right and view each page. As ahgin described, I 'screen scraped' other jiapu/zupu's available onto my hard drive. However, I only did this for the Young 杨 and Zhou 周. It was so tedious and not knowing the value of my work, I quit before doing the same for Chang 鄭. Sorry that I therefore have nothing upload to you. Since the past few months, their security increased and I cannot access jiapu.cn. I use to open a screen of ancestry.com next to jiapu.cnto navigate the latter without the use of google translate. Now I cannot get into either site. I suspect that both are out of beta testing now and have more restricted access. Selling jiapu's might be a revenue source which needs protection. I paid several hundred U$ dollars for my paternal grandfather's jiapu/zupu. However it was 'field tested' by Henry's nephew Si Cheng and was indeed my family's jiapu. I will write about that worthwhile experience later as another blog entry. Si Cheng then located my family members on the jiapu and bookmarked the pages. That saved me an incredible amount of work! Just prior to obtaining that jiapu, I got for free a copy of my paternal grandmother's jiapu from distant relatives who recently visited China. They also were able to bookmark my relatives. BTW: This was one of the benefits of having an online presence with my jiapu. I was able to maintain contact with my Australian based relatives with stronger Chinese language skills, closer roots to China, and a similar interest in our common genealogy. Hopefully my experience will offer benchmarks to how much you want to spend for access to potential jiapu's. Last year, after I 'screen scraped' copies of the online jiapu/zupu's, I realized I did not know what to do with them(?!). There was the additional expense of having them translated without any idea of their value to my personal genealogy. Looking through them myself trying to find the characters of my relatives names left my eyes looking crossed, since I cannot read Chinese. I had to give up frustrated. I too am interested in the Chang's 鄭 in Zhongshan (my maternal grandmother's family). However, with SO many villages in Zhongshan, and SO many people, this is why the second subforum on the SiYi genealogy forum is labeled: Location, Location, Location. Location is the second coordinate (similar to GPS) which helps you pinpoint your heritage search. I can understand the frugality in obtaining jiapu/zupu's which might not be connected to you. ¿Are you able to read Chinese? ¿Do you have experience in reading the jiapu/zupu's? Please share your expertise, trials, and tribulations. If you find resources for on-line jiapu's, post your stories and experiences so others can learn. Let us know if Ancestry.com is finally able to give you access to jiapu/zupu's. It would be nice if Ancestry.com could digitize the jiapu/zupu's so one can search on-line for relatives. Kerry has written about his search engine experience with his private jiapu: Damper in a Wok see his post: siyigenealogy.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=software&thread=1072&page=1. One day the jiapu/zupu's will be searchable on-line. Unfortunately by then I will be in my nursing home....... Doug
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Post by davidchang on Jul 7, 2010 21:27:16 GMT -5
Doug-- First off, thanks for your generous and careful reply! It was very helpful. My principle complaint (and I think it should be the complaint of anyone interested in Chinese genealogy) is that I am paying for jiapu/zupu from Ancestry.com but not getting access. They have a HUGE number that are theoretically available as part of the subscription, yet many (perhaps most) do not work. (If you are an ancestry.com member, search "jiapu" in the card catalog area and you will be directed there. It is amazing--but frustrating.) Honestly, if it worked it would be tremendous. I cannot read Chinese beyond recognizing a few characters. What saves me is that I am able to depend on a Chinese reader for research assistance. He is, moreover, experienced in the use of family histories, which are not a straightforward kind of document at all. Published jiapu and zupu are collected by major research libraries in the US, China, and elsewhere. If you have access to a university library, you may be able to get them via interlibrary loan. Still, you are stuck having to read them. For that, I have no solution. Finally, Doug, you mention that the dream would be searchable digitized documents. I am sure that will come one day, and perhaps sooner than we expect. Even then, of course, we will need Chinese reading people to help us. I'm actually surprised that I have been unable to locate professional genealogists in the US specializing in Chinese genealogy. Am I missing something here? Again, thanks for all your help!
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Post by helen on Jul 8, 2010 1:26:08 GMT -5
We do our genealogy for the love of it - the hunt and thrill of getting connections. Helping fellow researchers - Not sure that there would be the same thrill working on some stranger's lineage.
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Post by Doug 周 on Jul 8, 2010 3:17:43 GMT -5
I have not subscribed to Ancestry.com. However, with the potential of a library of jiapu's, I will rethink access. I hear in Northern California, if one has a library card with certain public libraries, there is automatic access to Ancestry.com using the libraries subscription. I also hear that you can access Ancestry from home via the library's portal.
Has this reader published or written anything about his experience in Chinese family histories? I would like to learn from his experiences.
Are there professional genealogist? Who is their market? I find that among my USA relatives, VERY few are interested in their genealogy, let alone wanting to pay someone for research. My own research is a very lonely endeavor. However, in China, I hear that the government is devoting resources to collect jiapu/zupu's. Maybe this is to make amends from their destruction during the Cultural Revolution. I wonder if there is a market for professional genealogist in China? Maybe Si Cheng is considered a professional genealogist.
Doug
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Post by harc3 on Jul 8, 2010 8:01:00 GMT -5
oh great just searched for jiapu and found my character (Shen, Sum) 沈 has 36 entries, Don't know what is what as I can't read Chinese
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Post by davidchang on Jul 8, 2010 11:32:11 GMT -5
Hi--Yes, doing one's own genealogy is a thrill, I agree. I'm just thinking about the complicated problems we all run into and how some experienced help would be great. The professionals mostly serve the European American market--see genealogypro.com/. As for the guy who I'm counting on for help, he has not written anything about them, I'm afraid. He ended up using these sources (jiapu/zupu) as a graduate student in history in Taiwan. Again, thanks so much for your help and ideas! This is a wonderful site and I'm glad I registered.
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Post by Doug 周 on Jul 8, 2010 12:05:12 GMT -5
Thanks davidchang, I never ceased to be amazed and humbled at how little I know
Doug
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Post by Henry on Jul 8, 2010 18:54:18 GMT -5
Hi David,
Let me also add my welcome to our Forum.
Beyond the access issues with ancestry.com, the genealogy books that may be available on ancestry.com - may contain lineage segments that can be linked together as parts of your complete lineage from HuangDi, the Yellow Emperor ( 2697 BC 2597 BC ) to the present.
Having had some experience in tracing my own lineage over a span of 4,700 years and 148 generations, my suggestion would be to start with acquiring your family genealogy book from your ancestral village and then looking for those particular lineage segments that are needed.
As for a professional Chinese genealogists - the Chinese Cultural Center of San Francisco charges $150 USD per hour to do Chinese genealogy research. If you require help in acquiring your genealogy book from your ancestral village - my Taishan nephew Shi Cheng is available to assist. I am in the process of moving from Frederick, MD to Phoenix, AZ during the next ten days, but, I can be contacted at: "Tomclan@Gmail.com"
Henry
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Post by Doug 周 on Jul 9, 2010 13:36:05 GMT -5
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Post by Ah Gin on Jul 9, 2010 15:24:47 GMT -5
Doug,
I know of the "Founder, in Search of Roots" associated with the Chinese Culture Foundation of SF, and his contact (he is a Cheng). I have not used their service personally, so cannot give any judgement, and in any case, who am I to judge others? That said, I will be happy to forward request to contact him, or interested folks can contact them directly.
Good luck and happy hunting.
Regards, Ah Gin
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Post by Doug 周 on Jul 10, 2010 9:30:01 GMT -5
Ah Gin,
Actually I am not in the market for a professional genealogist. I just wanted to know the experience of customers using the Chinese Cultural Center of SF's service. I personally have enough material on hand (from using a service I will write about later) to keep me busy for several months. I was looking for 'end user' comments similar to Amazon.com or Ebay. I am curious what a professional genealogist will offer. The web site for CCC of SF states there is not a representative in the Pearl Delta for their offered service. It seems to not have been updated since 2009.
Can your contact Cheng write something on this forum about his service. Better yet, can he advertise on this forum? (BTW I have no fiduciary relationship with this Genealogy Forum) Potential clients would likely be reading this forum.
I just wanted to solicit information for all the readers of this forum.
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Post by Ah Gin on Jul 11, 2010 4:13:26 GMT -5
Doug,
I feel uncomfortable "inviting" folks to advertise their service on this Forum. I understand your motive and I think it's a good one, ie, share our experiences. But where it requires us to judge the work of others -- then I feel uncomfortable. However, if they were to be asked to describe the "Scope of Work" etc, so that other folks wanting such help and service have a better understanding, then I think it's fair. I will drop a note to Chang and in my best ability, alert him to our Forum and maybe he will want to describe the sort of services the organization he belongs to can offer.
Regards, Ah Gin
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Post by leechun on Jul 29, 2010 16:57:20 GMT -5
This is not so much a reply as a question. Can someone define or differentiate for me a jiapu and a zupu? Are those romanizations in Mandarin? If yes, what would they be in Cantonese? Is a Juk Pu the same as either one?
I speak no Chinese and, in fact, am not Chinese but I am working on my husband's Chinese genealogy. On a visit to his family's village earlier this year in Chungshan (Oo Syak) we were able to see the Young family genealogy. At the time we only photographed 3 pages. Fortunately, when we returned to Hawaii, we discovered a distant family member who had translated all 15 books back in 1980 and we were able to get a copy of this translation (all 700+ pages). Now I am trying to figure out how to cite this resource in my research work.
Thank you for any insights.
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Post by leechun on Jul 29, 2010 17:49:29 GMT -5
How are you accessing these jiapu and zupu at Ancestry.com? I have a subscription but don't find any Chinese family trees. Is a deluxe membership required?
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