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Post by nathan on Jun 28, 2016 9:15:18 GMT -5
Hi. Do you know what is next for the 德 in lim generations? May grand father is 林太X. My father is 林親X. And my mine is 林德X. I want to know the next generation name for my son? Thank you. I tyink they said we were in Amoy Lim clan.
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Post by phaikhooi on Oct 6, 2016 20:53:38 GMT -5
dear Lin/Lim/Lam/Lum clan
my great grandfather is called Lam Hor Choy (Penang) and i am looking for his other family members as well as the names of his father and mother. A Lam Hor Tuck was found on the internet and his children's names seem to have to same generation names as my great grandfathers children. The generational names are: Lam xx Kee for the boys and Lam Saw xx for the girls. Also looking to find out if there is any connection with Lam Looking and Lam To 'Kai. Any help much appreciated. TQ.
sorry i do not have any date of birth or date of death.
regards Phaik Hooi
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Post by philiptancl on Oct 10, 2016 3:36:41 GMT -5
Hi Phaikhooi,
What are you looking for? Are you looking to get into contact with other family members related to your great grandfather Lam Hor Choy or are you trying to trace his ancestral line and family tree? Having the same Chinese character for the generation name within one generation is not likely that both would belong to the same surname clan.
You said your great grandfather Lam Hor Choy is from Penang. The main dialect group in Penang is Hockien but from the names you have given, you do not appear to be Hockien.
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Post by phaikhooi on Oct 11, 2016 8:24:19 GMT -5
dear philiptanci
thank you for your reply. i always thought that having the same generation name generally means that the families belong to the same branch. now i know that it is not so. actually, i have been in contact with a lady descended from Lam Look Ing's older sister, Lam Choy Fan. and we have found the descendants of Lam Look Ing who has been back to the ancestral village. one of the lady's cousin is descended from Lam Hor Tuck and she thinks that he could be descended from another brother, Lam Kok Cheng. i am just wondering how we could confirm this since all the descendants of Lam Hor Choy and Lam Hor Tuck do not seem to know the names of Lam Hor Choy's or Lam Hor Tuck's parents or where they were buried (probably penang) or when they died (i guess about 1950s). They were cantonese not hokkien. Lam To Kai had 6 sons: Lam Kok Cheng, Kok Cheong, Kok Yee, Kok Lai, Kok Woo and Look Ing. so i guess i am looking at ancestry rather than current family members. is the generation name "Hor" for the generation after "Kok"? is there a Lam To Kai family book out there somewhere? cos they didn't find one when they went to the ancestral village. regards phaikhooi
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Post by philiptancl on Oct 12, 2016 1:14:20 GMT -5
Hi phaikhooi,
You said your family has found the descendants of Lam Look Ing who herself and/or her descendants have been back to the ancestral village and they could not find the ancestral records when they went to the ancestral village. Did she/they go to the main Lam (林) clan ancestral hall at the ancestral place, meet up with the committee members, and that they confirmed the ancestral records zupu (族譜) no longer exist or destroyed during the Cultural Revolution period, and that they are not reconstructing the records again? There are other possibilities that she did not get I could postulate. I suppose Lam Look Ing and Lam Hor Tuck are female descendants of the Lam clan from your ancestral village. I suppose the Chinese character for the surname Lam is林 while Ing would be英. If the clan members of your ancestral village are very traditional, they may not even allow female descendants into ancestral hall let alone show them the zupu/jiapu if they have one. I have heard of cases where the records are kept at a special place and could not be simply taken out at will. I have also heard of a case where deceased ancestors’ permission (by way of invocating them and using two coins or other divination devises to see they would agree) in order to view the ancestral records. I also heard of a well educated elderly Chen (陳) originating from Zhongshan ( 中山), now in Australia, who would not show the zupu he has to his own sister. Other than going to your ancestral village to seek your zupu (族譜)/jiapu (家譜), it is extremely slim that you would be able to find it from this Forum or anywhere else unless there is someone out there who originates from the same ancestral village as yours, already found the zupu and willing to share it with you or with others. Regarding those names you mentioned in your postings, you will need to have them correctly in Chinese characters so as to check them out in the zupu once you are able to find it. It is likely that their names may not even be recorded in the zupu/jiapu if your ancestor had left China too far back, never reported back subsequent births, never have communication with male relatives back in the ancestral village. If that is the case you may have to build the family tree downwards from the nearest known ancestor recorded in the zupu. Finding the graves of your deceased relatives (either the male side of your surname clan or their spouses) is a good way to start.
How sure are you that your ancestors and male relatives are following the generation names? Do any of your family members have the list showing the sequence of generation names for your Lam surname clan from your ancestral village? You said your great grandfather, Lam Hor Choy, settled in Penang. Are you still in Penang or anywhere else in Malaysia? If you are and should you happen to be in Kuala Lumpur, do contact me and I can show you various examples of generation names for various surname clans to illustrate on what I had said regarding them.
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Post by phaikhooi on Oct 12, 2016 6:08:46 GMT -5
dear philiptanci
i am grateful for your detailed explanation. i now understand why it is difficult to get hold of family books.
Lam Look Ing is the youngest son of Lam To Kai. some of the sons remained in China and that's how she (Lam Look Ing's grand daughter) found the ancestral home of Lam To Kai. i am not sure if she went to the Lam clan to ask about Lam To Kai's descendants. two of the sons who lived in Penang (Lam Kok Cheng) and Ipoh (Lam Look Ing) worked as court interpreters in Malaya. one other son was a rubber plantation and tin mining owner. Lam Look Ing was also a famous tin miner and has a road named after him in Ipoh.
at the moment, descendants of Lam Hor Choy (male) and Lam Hor Tuck (male) do not know if they are related to Lam Look Ing or descended from Lam To Kai and that was what i was hoping to find out but it seems impossible now. i had thought of going to the registry of births and deaths Penang to see if i can get hold of Lam Hor Choy's birth certificate (as that would have the names of his father and mother) but as they were not very keen to help me with an earlier request, i think that would be impossible too. i still haven't found Lam Hor Choy's grave but i will try again next cheng beng when they have cut the grass.
regarding the generation name, i am only guessing but i believe that generation of straits chinese who had close ties with China did follow this tradition? i am sad to admit that i do not know any chinese but i do know that your chinese character for Lam is the right one.
i am based in penang. thank you for your kind invitation if ever i am in KL, i will be sure to meet up with you for another lesson on chinese ancestry.
regards phaikhooi
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Post by philiptancl on Oct 13, 2016 1:28:26 GMT -5
Hi phaikhooi,
If you know the approximate location of Lam Hor Choy's grave, searching for may be easy enough. If you know the date of his death, an easier way is to look at the burial record register; hopefully the cemetery office where he was buried still keeps it. Forget about registration department for birth. My experience in getting mine (when the original was lost) with known date of birth and place of birth proved futile. The gravestones could provide the names of children and grandchildren (often in Chinese characters). I have seen the names of daughters as well. Do be sensitive should go to the grave of Lam Hor Choy during Cheng Beng. Remember you are not part of the Lam clan. A few superstitious Lam members may not welcome you there during Cheng Beng at the grave.
Send you a personal message through this Forum.
Philip
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Post by phaikhooi on Oct 13, 2016 3:56:35 GMT -5
dear philiptanci
thank you for your advice. will keep in mind when i visit next cheng beng.
regards phaikhooi
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Post by limsoonhoe on Oct 25, 2016 8:36:05 GMT -5
I am told there are 50 lineages for the Lim Clan so its not easy to find the right one. You need a list of names to give you the closest fit
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Post by limsoonhoe on Oct 25, 2016 8:40:19 GMT -5
Unfortunately I do not read Chinese so this is not very useful to me. I am told these are generational poems
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Post by limsoonhoe on Oct 25, 2016 8:50:13 GMT -5
Dear Phillip, From the generational poems I posted here, which lineage do you think give me the best fit? My ancestors names were 列 , 德, 纉, 永. and 木 We didnt follow the generational names after WW2. So I always wondered what my middle name would be if we followed the poem.
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Post by lachinatown on Oct 25, 2016 10:21:05 GMT -5
Looks like page 4 of 4 is missing. Or is this all there is.
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Post by limsoonhoe on Oct 30, 2016 10:09:26 GMT -5
Page 4 is almost blank
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Post by limsoonhoe on Oct 30, 2016 10:15:50 GMT -5
Hello again,
So from the above pics I posted, which generation poem fits my line of names used by my ancestors? My ancestors names were 列 , 德, 纉, 永. and 木
Thank you!
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Post by philiptancl on Nov 2, 2016 6:14:18 GMT -5
Dear Limsoonhoe,
There should be much more than those generation poems for the Lim clan you have posted. Those posted are from some Lim clans (林氏) from some places in China; quite a few from Fujian (福建). I note the first in the list is one 枣岭 Lim clan from Yongchun (永春) County. When I check with my surname reference book for Yongchun (永春), 枣岭林氏 is only one 32 Lim clans from Yongchun itself; each of the 32 Lim clans essentially having their own generation poems and are different from one another. What you have posted on 枣岭林氏 is only part of two sets its generation names and only from Generation 17 to Generation 26. The first set (联芳超祖德,统绪尚仁慈.) is for the Hui (讳) name while the second set (才美启宗徽,传心通孝友.) is for the Zi (字) name. That I could not find a match, for what you have quoted as your generation names with the list you have posted, does not come as a surprise. You need to know the ancestral place your ancestor is from and the Lim clan you belong to. Which county in China does your ancestor originated from? If it is from Yongchun (永春), Anxi (安溪) or Dehua (Dehua), I could check if yours match with any of the Lim clans there as listed in the surname reference books that I have.
Philip
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