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Post by Ah Gin on Jun 15, 2011 15:07:24 GMT -5
billiesew, According to Village DB, www.c-c-c.org/villagedb/display.cgi?level=Village&id=3034 there is a 石洞 (Shek Tung) within the Toishan County. It's a Village of Lee. Gentleman Henry is indeed a 譚 (Tham, Tam, Hom etc. as many variations as there are us Chinese Heritage researchers ;D) Regards, Ah Gin |
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Post by lachinatown on Jun 15, 2011 22:12:51 GMT -5
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Post by billiesiew on Jun 16, 2011 10:22:47 GMT -5
Hi Ah Gin - thanks for the info..but looks like that village is not same surname as my grandma. Indeed, I didn't know that Hom was also Tham.. I have a colleague from America who has that surname but he couldn't tell me what it was in Chinese.
Hi Lachinatown - So many "Chaoyangs" in the map..haha, so confusing, and all with different Chinese strokes. I wld hv been hopelessly lost if not for all of your help.
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Post by twoupman on Jun 16, 2011 10:56:55 GMT -5
Billie, I must apologize for wrongly identifying 朝陽里 as being in Taishan County (台山市) in my reply post. It is actually in Xinhui County (新會區). This can be verified by going to the Village Database and selecting “in Chinese” and entering 朝陽里 before executing the search. It will return several answers and Line 7 shows 新會 followed by 天河鄉, 朝陽里 and the surname Siu (蕭). I did not realize Siew is your family surname or I would have suggested you search the database and come up with the same answer. The map referred to by lachinatown is correct. In a later post where you referred to your grandma’s “village across the river” I suppose you mean to the north of the Tanjiang River (潭江). If so, that is in Kaiping County (開平市). Unfortunately, there is no village listed in the Database by the name of Shidong (石洞) under Tan (譚) surname. As for your husband’s parents being from Huizhou County (惠州市) it means they are most likely Hakka (客家). Do you know the characters for Cha Tham? houseofchinn.com |
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Post by lachinatown on Jun 17, 2011 0:02:26 GMT -5
twoupman,
Why are you saying ³¯ê–Àï is not in Taishan County? All the boundary maps of Taishan show that ³¯ê–Àï is located in Taishan, below the river.
In fact ÌìºÓ is located in Kaiping, not in Xinhui. The river east of ÌìºÓ separate Kaiping and Xinhui. Google map shows ÌìºÓ by the river. My own Guangdong maps show ÌìºÓ is located west of Ë®¿Ú Shuikouzhen. Something is wrong with all these maps. ÌìºÓ is not correctly located.
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Post by billiesiew on Jun 17, 2011 10:10:09 GMT -5
Hi twoupman,
The old database does show my village as part of Xinhui. But the current map shows it to be part of Taishan. When I google it under Xinhui, it doesn't come up, but when I put Taishan, it does come up.
Well, haha, I guess I can now say I am dual citizen..! But I cannot speak Xinhui dialect, or Taishan dialect.. I can only speak the Cantonese that is similar to the Hong Kong type.
As for the characters for Cha Tham, no, I dun know bec its something I hear at the family gatherings and I am not good with written Chinese.
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Post by Henry on Jun 17, 2011 18:27:22 GMT -5
Dear Colleagues, The collateral information from Village DB and billiesiew's original post seems to support the location of Chiu Yeung / Chaoyang hamlet ³¯ê–Àï in Sunwui. The Village DB indicates that this Sui hamlet is located within Tin Ho heung ÌìºÓàl near the market town of Cheong Ping ²ýƽ located at the military grid coordinates of GQ 0825. I checked the Sunwui map that came with the Village DB and Cheong Ping is located at "B" within Tin Ho heung. But, just because this hamlet does not show up on a map does not indicate it was never there. It may have gone deserted or been consolidated with a large nearby village. The location "A" shows the location of Chiu Yeung / Chaoyang hamlet ³¯ê–Àï in Taishan county, where billiesiew and Lachinatown believe is the correct village. But in a subsequent post, Lachinatown mentions that Kevin Chin visited this village and within that post, the Roots DB indicates it is a "Liu" clan village. So, I do not believe this is the ancestral village of billiesiew. I am still not convinced that this is the correct village because it does not have the collateral heung and market town identified by the Village DB. If you do a search on just " ³¯ê– ", in the Village DB you get 27 hits, there are Chiu Yeung sites in Taishan (17 ), Hoiping (2), and Sunwui (2), with 3 Chiu Yeung villages located near location A. Actually, the village that billiesiew and Lachinatown identified as the correct ancestral village is on line 7. The collateral information matches. Yet,there is one and only one Sui clan Chiu Yeung village located in Sunwui county. My question to billiesiew is where did she get the information she originally posted: Sun Wui Еþ Tin Ho Heung ÌìºÓàl Chiew Yeong Lay ³¯ê–Àï I also need to check to see if there is a village by the name of Lianjiang around location B. Lianjiang is the name of the village that billiesiew used to confirm the village identified by Lachinatown.  I believe this is one of those cases where you need my Taishan nephew to research that particular Chiu Yeung village near location B. Henry |
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Post by billiesiew on Jun 18, 2011 12:08:35 GMT -5
I think the village that Kevin visited is Chaoyang, near Dajiangzhen, not the Chaoyangli that is my village. I think the location given by lachinatown is correct, as it is just south of Tianhe and near Lianjiang, and close to Xinhui as well. I'm hoping my cousin is able to provide me with some info as her mom visited back in the 70s, then I can do a more detailed search.
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Post by twoupman on Jun 21, 2011 22:39:07 GMT -5
Billie, The search for your ancestral village has been quite a challenge! The previous location in Taishan had always bothered me because of Tianhe (天河乡) being in Kaiping County (开平市). A Xiang (乡) cannot be in another county to be in its jurisdiction; hence something was amiss. According to the Village DB, Chaoyangli (朝阳里) is located in Xinhui County (新会) and since there was no way to find its location in Google Maps I decided this time to use the neighboring village of Chaxi (槎溪) in Line 6 which is also a Xiao (萧) surname village and thus must be close to yours. From Google Maps I was unable to find this village by the normal methods but after much searching I found both Chaxi (槎溪) and Tianhe (天河乡) in close proximity to each other. In order to locate it with Google Maps just copy and paste this: 广东省江门市平洞. Just head eastward from the red marker and you will see Chaxi (槎溪) and Tianhe (天河) near the West River (西江). This I believe is the site of your ancestral village. As for you grandma’s village, I conducted a DB search using the Tan (谭) surname and this time instead of trying to find Shidong/Sek Dung (石洞) I decided to look under Xinhui (新会) and ….presto, I saw Line 334 with Shiyong/Sek Chung (石涌) which in Cantonese sounds close to your Sek Dung (which I believe was a guess?) and it is in Jiangmen (江门). This village is located southeast of your ancestral village. To locate it with Google Maps just copy and paste this: 广东省江门市石涌. Possibly this is the location? All you need to do now is ask your older relatives and verify if my search is correct. I have used Simplified Chinese characters this time to make it easier for you to reference them to the maps houseofchinn.com |
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Post by Doug 周 on Jun 22, 2011 8:44:42 GMT -5
billiesiew, You could use this site: Chinese Tools:Simplified to Traditionalclick to convert twoupman's simplified characters to traditional to change the format to something your elders might more easily recognize. Just < select>< copy>&< paste> into the screen after adjusting your browser to handle Chinese characters. Doug |
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Post by billiesiew on Jun 22, 2011 8:52:25 GMT -5
Hi Twoupman..thanks for your very detailed reply..I am very grateful that you all did not give up.
I did a search on the Tianhe village u mentioned and u know what, I think u're right, this could be my village.
And when I expanded it, I realised that due to my poor Chinese, what I saw as Lianjiang was actually Pengjiang - which I think is the county that this Tianhe village is in.
According to the village database, my village is near Changping which is just above. So this might be the correct one.
I don't know how to copy and paste the Chinese writing on to this. Its actually a photo that we took of the sheet.
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Post by billiesiew on Jun 22, 2011 9:04:28 GMT -5
I also think you've got my grandma's village correct, my dad used to say that it was located down river, and in a hilly area. When I expanded the Shiyongli area, I see what looks like hills/mountains near it.
Hmm, do you think the people would understand Cantonese as we speak it (like Hong Kong style)? Or would they still speak in Xinwui dialect which I never learnt? Or we could get by just using Mandarin?
Anyway maybe when we finally get the telephone number, we might ask for the services of Henry's nephew. If he can find any family members, that wld make me very happy indeed.
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Post by billiesiew on Jun 22, 2011 9:10:15 GMT -5
Twoupman - hope you can see this? Attachments:
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Post by billiesiew on Jun 22, 2011 9:12:34 GMT -5
Twoupman - the tel no. is a peson who is from the ancestral temple, apparently. I can't read Chinese so I am not sure what it says. Can you help to translate?
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Post by lachinatown on Jun 22, 2011 12:14:13 GMT -5
It clear up things.
Jiangmen, Pengjiang
Tangxia, Tianhe, Chaoyand Li
responsible person:
phone
mobile phone
great-grandfather (18th century)
grandfather (19th century)
father.
Lot of information
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