msen
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Posts: 59
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Post by msen on Feb 15, 2013 14:59:48 GMT -5
Could be a relative but probably not my father since I was born in the 50's and he died (perhaps he was between 50-60 years old). But I need more detail re my father to rule out who is a relative or not. I am waiting for the NYC Health Dept to find his Death Certificate for more clues. Thanks, I will post again as soon as I find more info!
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msen
Member
Posts: 59
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Post by msen on Feb 15, 2013 15:04:15 GMT -5
Could be a relative but probably not my father since I was born in the 50's and he died (perhaps he was between 50-60 years old). But I need more detail re my father to rule out who is a relative or not. I am waiting for the NYC Health Dept to find his Death Certificate for more clues. Thanks, I will post again as soon as I find more info!
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Post by FayChee on Feb 21, 2013 22:37:49 GMT -5
Hello Everyone, I have been trying to help Msen by doing searches on Ancestry.com. She has ordered her father's death certificate but it will take awhile.
In the 1920 Census, we think we found him, Chuck Sen at age 18, in the house hold with Toi Sen, also 18, and the head of household, Choy Sen, age 50. We are not sure of their relationships as they are listed as boarders, occupation Laundryman, own shop.
Following Choy Sen, in 1913 he crossed into Canada. His wife was listed as Wong Shee, Ping Ning Village, S.N. District, China.
Choy Sen also has INS interrogation papers where it lists his Village as Peung Leung, Hok Shan. Msen said that she thought his village was Ping Ling, so I think this is the same place. I think that since her dad was living as a boarder in Choy Sen's household, he is probably somehow related.
Below is from the New York Chinese Exclusion Papers:
Choy Sen Alias: Dot Jee Sin Possible Chinese Surname: 沈 Gender: Male Birth Date: 1869 Birthplace: China Age: 43 Occupation: Laundryman Place of Origin: Peung Leung Village, Hok Shan Address: 13 Pell St; New York; New York Additional Address: 990 Castleton Ave, W.B.B.; Staten Island; New York Port & Entry Date: San Francisco; 1881 Picture: 1 Interrogation: 1 Document Date: 1888-1921 Case Description: R Case Number(s): 6, 246 Box: 7
I could not find anything about where Ping Ling is located in China.....I think it may be the old name and that there is a different modern name now.
Can anyone help with this? Thanks.
Fay Chee
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Post by laohuaqiao on Feb 22, 2013 11:43:49 GMT -5
That's a good find, FayChee. I believe we have the village.
Hok Shan is 鶴山 (Heshan, the official/Mandarin name). It is sometimes included with the 4 counties of siyi Taishan, Xinhui, Kaiping and and Enping as the 5 counties. With the other 4 regions, it is under the jurisdiction of Jiangmen City.
There is a Ping Ling 平嶺 village in Hok Shan/Heshan.
I asked my father a few weeks ago about the Sen/Sien surname and he thought it might be 冼 (Sin in Cantonese and Xian in Mandarin). However, he couldn't recall any clan in Taishan with that surname.
Searching for migration of family clans in Hok Shan/Heshan, sure enough, there is a mention of 冼 Sin/Xian clan which settled in Ping Ling.
In Google Maps, Ping Ling is labeled as Ping Ling Mountain (ling means mountain) and its coordinates are (22.596, 112.968).
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Post by FayChee on Feb 22, 2013 13:59:51 GMT -5
Hi Laohuaqiao Thanks so much for your help in finding Msen's clan and village. I know she will be excited. I hope she will be able to get her dad's death certificate so that we can find out which cemetery in Brooklyn he is buried since he is not at Evergreens.
My internet has been down for the past week and I have been very sick since the beginning of Feb and am just now getting over the flu/pneumonia.......
Fay Chee
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msen
Member
Posts: 59
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Post by msen on Feb 22, 2013 14:03:23 GMT -5
laohuaqiao and Fay Chee, Thank you for this help. It is like a dream com true. I will continue with search details, and maybe now can find some possible living relatives. Also I will wait for any documents that I have ordered. Oddly enough, our state historical society hosted a group of archivists from China and I just read about that yesterday. I am waiting from a call from this society but it might not be until next week because of the US Midwest snow storm. I have so much to learn and thank you for all your input and direction. I can finally learn who I am. With tears of happiness, Mara Sen
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msen
Member
Posts: 59
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Post by msen on Feb 22, 2013 19:55:18 GMT -5
Just now looking at Google maps. Looks like Hok Shan (Heshan) is in the Canton area. And you say there is a Ping Ling village there to? The Ping Ling Mountain in Google Maps is very northwest of that area. So, my question is, are there two Ping Ling Villages? One in the mountains and one near Canton?
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Post by FayChee on Feb 22, 2013 21:10:10 GMT -5
Laohuaqiao, Mara's dad owned a Chinese Laundry in Brooklyn around 1948-1955, but no one can remember what street it was on or the name of it. It may have been in East New York, Brooklyn (I don't know anything about Brooklyn). I tried calling current Chinese Laundries in Brooklyn today and asking if there was a previous owner with the name Chuck Sen, but after two Laundries I gave up because the people answering the phone could not understand what I was asking.
I tried searching for Brooklyn Business Directories for that time period, but there were none online that I could find.
Do you think that the Chinatown Benevolent Society has a Clan for Sen? Maybe Mara can contact them and find out more information.
Fay Chee
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Post by laohuaqiao on Feb 23, 2013 0:10:27 GMT -5
msen, Within Guangdong province, there may be many villages with the same name Ping Ling. Even within Hok Shan/Heshan there may be more than one Ping Ling village. I have only found one, and, hopefully, it's the only one. If you haven't locate that on Google Maps, enter the coordinates within the parentheses, which I gave previously, into the search text area and do a search. Green arrow should point to location corresponding to the coordinates. You may have to zoom in/out to the right level before the village names appear.
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Post by laohuaqiao on Feb 23, 2013 0:42:07 GMT -5
FayChee, At one time, before the late 1960s, there were thousands of Chinese laundries in New York City and now there are only a handful left. Chances are not good that msen's father's laundry is still in business.
I seem to remember the city discriminated against the Chinese by requiring a license (and a periodic fee) in order to open a laundry business. With the exception of food establishments, I don't think any other small businesses require a license. So the city archives may have records of owners of Chinese laundries.
I don't think there is a Sen Association. There is a Hok San Association, 42 Mott St, New York, NY 10013, 212-608-7431
I called them earlier today, the man answered the phone was rather impatient and didn't want to talk much over the phone, because the association is busy organizing their Spring (Chinese New Year) banquet. Either msen tries to call them again or I'll wait a week or so and drop by their office when I get a chance.
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Post by FayChee on Feb 23, 2013 6:12:50 GMT -5
Thank you for the helpful information Laohuaqiao. Mara is like me, totally new to anything Chinese and would not be able to communicate with the Hok Shan Association. She was raised by her German relatives. We both cut and paste the Chinese Character found in the Chinese Exclusion Act file for the name Choy Sen/Sin (Possible Chinese Surname: ’¾ ) , into the Wiki and NCIKU translators, and they say 'Shen', so I assume that it is a variation of Sen/Sin/Xian/Sien like my name (Situ, Seto, Szeto, Soo Hoo).......is this correct? Or maybe they say "Possible Chinese Surname" because they were guessing too. Her dad's cousin went by the name of Jimmy Sien (died in Hong Kong) and had told them that it was their real last name and that the 'i' was dropped by a clerk doing the paperwork, and her dad just left it that way. Sien seems to similar to Xian, and from records on Ancestry.com, Sen and Sin were used interchangeably. It didn't occur to me that there would be more than one Ping Ling Village, but then I didn't know that there were 200 Seto Villages either. I think that locating her village will not be as easy as I thought. When the weather gets better, maybe I will be able to do some legwork at the Brooklyn City Library. Thank you again Laohuaqiao.........Fay Chee Attachments:
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msen
Member
Posts: 59
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Post by msen on Feb 23, 2013 9:02:42 GMT -5
Yes, thank you, I do see Ping Ling 'mountain'. Now I can search for photos of that area while searching for the Sen Laundry in Brooklyn. As note I have requested the death certificate and will request any other docs that I believe are related. I do know for sure there were male relatives so the search continues with the eyes and direction of this big team : )
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Post by laohuaqiao on Feb 23, 2013 11:43:04 GMT -5
FayChee and Mara, The surname 沈 Shen is in Mandarin, but in Cantonese it is Shum and in Taishanese it is Sim. The ending consonant "m" sound is very strong, I think it's hard to mistake that for an "n". Anyway, putting the other information together, Ping Ling village in Hok Shan and the surname Sen/Sin/Xian 冼 seem to fit. I want to find out from the Hok San Association whether there may be more than 1 Ping Ling village, is there a large Sen/Sin/Xian 冼 population in New York? The man I spoke to said the association has their own plots of cemetery land but did not elaborate, that would be another good lead. In search for info on the Sin/Xian surname in Guangdong, I found this attached article on a Lady Sinn. It's a very interesting read, especially on the historical background of Guangdong, sometimes referred to as Lingnan (South of the Mountains) or Nan Yue(Southern Yue). Vietnam means Southern Viet, Viet and Yue are the same words. Attachments:
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msen
Member
Posts: 59
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Post by msen on Feb 23, 2013 14:43:17 GMT -5
In a past google search I found some surnames Sen in NY and Ca and a few here and there. Also , quite a few in Hawaii. Let me continue on the Sen/Sien track since even the character looks very different. I will read the article right away; there is so much to learn!
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Post by twoupman on Feb 23, 2013 15:11:40 GMT -5
msen, Could it be this surname Sin (冼) in Cantonese or Xian in Mandarin? twoupman houseofchinn.com
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