|
Post by FayChee on Jun 9, 2013 15:29:31 GMT -5
We are starting this new thread to make it easier for those seeking information on the surname Sen/Sin/Sien/Xian...........the original thread was started by Msen (Mara Sen) on the thread labeled "New to forum, please help" in Feb 2013. I will cut and paste some of the posts here.
|
|
|
Post by FayChee on Jun 9, 2013 15:32:57 GMT -5
Need help in using the very few clues that I know for sure. My Chinese father went by the name of Chuck Sen and had a Chinese laundry in Brooklyn, New York, around the 1940s and 1950s. I only lived with both my parents (my mother was German) until I was two years old. He died around 1960 and his cousins or perhaps brothers came to see him one last time (he was very ill) and to make arrangements for burial. However, their last name was something like Sien. They told another relative that this name, Sien, was the real name but my father used Sen because a clerk had dropped the letter and so he kept using it. I find no census records or any vital documents but my older biological sister knows that he came from Canton, China and maybe the village was Ping Ling. One of the cousins was Jimmy Sien, who later died in Hong Kong. Can anyone offer any direction or connections with such few clues? Thank you for any advice you can offer.
|
|
|
Post by FayChee on Jun 9, 2013 15:33:51 GMT -5
One place to look for that information is on your father's tombstone. Is there any Chinese inscription? That would have his Chinese name and place of birth. In case you don't know the location of his grave, search the city records for his death certificate based on the year and approximate date of his death. I think the certificate should contain information that would lead you to the cemetery and funeral home which handled the service. The funeral home, if it was Chinese and still in business, would have some info in Chinese of your father.
|
|
|
Post by FayChee on Jun 9, 2013 15:34:44 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by FayChee on Jun 9, 2013 15:36:52 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by FayChee on Jun 9, 2013 15:38:02 GMT -5
This may not help, but a quick search in the Ancestry.com database brought up this record (New York State Passenger and Crew List 1917-1973) from the National Archives. You may be able to order his immigration records if it is your dad. New York State, Passenger and Crew Lists, 1917-1973 Name: Chuck Sen Age: 25 Birth Date: abt 1895 Arrival Date: 18 Oct 1920 Port of Arrival: New York Ship Name: Essequibo
|
|
|
Post by FayChee on Jun 9, 2013 15:38:41 GMT -5
msen, If your father's burial was handled by a Chinese funeral home in the 1960s, I think his grave is very likely to be in Evergreens Cemetery in Brooklyn, NY (718) 455-5300. It's worth a try to give them a call. Also find-a-grave websites do return one result for "Chuck Sen". They require a fee for membership, I don't know how reliable they are. Perhaps others here can comment.
|
|
|
Post by FayChee on Jun 9, 2013 15:40:14 GMT -5
quote author=" FayChee" source="/post/11936/thread" timestamp="1360908596"]These are all the people named 'Sen' and 'Sien' listed in the Evergreens Cemetery database in Brooklyn, NY ENG NEW SEN 1951-10-11 (burial date) 369567 LEE KIM SEN 1945-03-05 344826 LUM LICK SEN 1953-04-09 375619 NG KWONG SEN 1970-08-31 455612 PEARL W. SIEN 2003-08-01 521922 SIMON M SIEN 1981-02-04 480969 [/quote]
|
|
|
Post by FayChee on Jun 9, 2013 15:41:53 GMT -5
Hello Everyone, I have been trying to help Msen by doing searches on Ancestry.com. She has ordered her father's death certificate but it will take awhile. In the 1920 Census, we think we found him, Chuck Sen at age 18, in the house hold with Toi Sen, also 18, and the head of household, Choy Sen, age 50. We are not sure of their relationships as they are listed as boarders, occupation Laundryman, own shop. Following Choy Sen, in 1913 he crossed into Canada. His wife was listed as Wong Shee, Ping Ning Village, S.N. District, China. Choy Sen also has INS interrogation papers where it lists his Village as Peung Leung, Hok Shan. Msen said that she thought his village was Ping Ling, so I think this is the same place. I think that since her dad was living as a boarder in Choy Sen's household, he is probably somehow related. Below is from the New York Chinese Exclusion Papers: Choy Sen Alias: Dot Jee Sin Possible Chinese Surname: 沈 Gender: Male Birth Date: 1869 Birthplace: China Age: 43 Occupation: Laundryman Place of Origin: Peung Leung Village, Hok Shan Address: 13 Pell St; New York; New York Additional Address: 990 Castleton Ave, W.B.B.; Staten Island; New York Port & Entry Date: San Francisco; 1881 Picture: 1 Interrogation: 1 Document Date: 1888-1921 Case Description: R Case Number(s): 6, 246 Box: 7 I could not find anything about where Ping Ling is located in China.....I think it may be the old name and that there is a different modern name now. Can anyone help with this? Thanks. Fay Chee
|
|
|
Post by FayChee on Jun 9, 2013 15:42:34 GMT -5
That's a good find, FayChee. I believe we have the village. Hok Shan is 鶴山 (Heshan, the official/Mandarin name). It is sometimes included with the 4 counties of siyi Taishan, Xinhui, Kaiping and and Enping as the 5 counties. With the other 4 regions, it is under the jurisdiction of Jiangmen City. There is a Ping Ling 平嶺 village in Hok Shan/Heshan. I asked my father a few weeks ago about the Sen/Sien surname and he thought it might be 冼 (Sin in Cantonese and Xian in Mandarin). However, he couldn't recall any clan in Taishan with that surname. Searching for migration of family clans in Hok Shan/Heshan, sure enough, there is a mention of 冼 Sin/Xian clan which settled in Ping Ling. In Google Maps, Ping Ling is labeled as Ping Ling Mountain ( ling means mountain) and its coordinates are (22.596, 112.968).
|
|
|
Post by FayChee on Jun 9, 2013 15:44:12 GMT -5
msen, Within Guangdong province, there may be many villages with the same name Ping Ling. Even within Hok Shan/Heshan there may be more than one Ping Ling village. I have only found one, and, hopefully, it's the only one. If you haven't locate that on Google Maps, enter the coordinates within the parentheses, which I gave previously, into the search text area and do a search. Green arrow should point to location corresponding to the coordinates. You may have to zoom in/out to the right level before the village names appear.
|
|
|
Post by FayChee on Jun 9, 2013 15:44:54 GMT -5
FayChee, At one time, before the late 1960s, there were thousands of Chinese laundries in New York City and now there are only a handful left. Chances are not good that msen's father's laundry is still in business. I seem to remember the city discriminated against the Chinese by requiring a license (and a periodic fee) in order to open a laundry business. With the exception of food establishments, I don't think any other small businesses require a license. So the city archives may have records of owners of Chinese laundries. I don't think there is a Sen Association. There is a Hok San Association, 42 Mott St, New York, NY 10013, 212-608-7431 I called them earlier today, the man answered the phone was rather impatient and didn't want to talk much over the phone, because the association is busy organizing their Spring (Chinese New Year) banquet. Either msen tries to call them again or I'll wait a week or so and drop by their office when I get a chance.
|
|
|
Post by FayChee on Jun 9, 2013 15:45:52 GMT -5
FayChee and Mara, The surname 沈 Shen is in Mandarin, but in Cantonese it is Shum and in Taishanese it is Sim. The ending consonant "m" sound is very strong, I think it's hard to mistake that for an "n". Anyway, putting the other information together, Ping Ling village in Hok Shan and the surname Sen/Sin/Xian 冼 seem to fit. I want to find out from the Hok San Association whether there may be more than 1 Ping Ling village, is there a large Sen/Sin/Xian 冼 population in New York? The man I spoke to said the association has their own plots of cemetery land but did not elaborate, that would be another good lead. In search for info on the Sin/Xian surname in Guangdong, I found this attached article on a Lady Sinn. It's a very interesting read, especially on the historical background of Guangdong, sometimes referred to as Lingnan (South of the Mountains) or Nan Yue(Southern Yue). Vietnam means Southern Viet, Viet and Yue are the same words.
|
|
|
Post by FayChee on Jun 9, 2013 15:47:55 GMT -5
msen, Among different Chinese dialects and even within the same dialect, there will be variations how a Chinese word is pronounced. Add that to the fact that there is no fix rule on transliteration from Chinese to English, to have many variations of the same Chinese surname is not unusual. Sinn is another transliteration of 冼. Lady Sinn, the 6th century woman warrior, could be an ancestor of yours. Finding your father's Chinese name on his tombstone would confirm his surname.
|
|
|
Post by FayChee on Jun 9, 2013 15:48:37 GMT -5
FayChee, Back in the days of the Exclusion Acts, the Chinese often listed an association address as their mailing address for a very good reason. Since many came to the US under a paper son name and there was fear that the immigration dept. monitored letters arriving from China, they didn't want letters from relatives revealing their true identity to be sent directly to their residence. Letters sent to an association could not be traced by immigration to the actual receivers. The Chinese Consolidated Benevolent Association, as it is now called, is an alliance of 70+ NY Chinatown organization. Its president is chosen, alternately, from representatives of only 2 of regional organizational members, Taishan Ning Yeung Association and Lin Sing Association. Taishanese once made up an overwhelming majority of the Chinese in America, they belong to Ning Yeung Association. All others belong to Lin Sing. It does make sense that Choy Sen who came from Hok Shan belonged to Lin Sing and had his mail delivered there.
|
|