Zheng/Cheng/Chung/Tay/Teh/Teay (鄭/郑) Clan

[philiptancl]

Hi Zhengmeieng,

If you provide me your email through Personal Message in this Forum, I shall forward the the version I have to you. I would normally print them using anti-UV ink on artist canvas. Each scroll will measures about 30 inches wide and 60 inches in height.

Philip

[zhengmeieng]

[e-mail]

[philiptancl]

zhengmeieng,

4 attachments set to you by email.

Philip

[zhengmeieng]

Mr. Tan,
I got your email. I wanted to post here in case other Tay/Tae wants to do research.  I read the Zhou.  I wanted to confirm that Zheng is the same clan and we, Zheng and Ji (as Ji Fa) are the same blood line.  That is I am also Ji blood.  

Additionally, I want to confirm the Ji Clan also killed the servants when the master died.  I saw this in Confucious drama series (ep 1).  I don't watch entire drama.  Then I searched and found this article.  I want to confirm that Zhou dynasty never killed their servants when the King died.  Both Eastern and WEstern Zhou killed their servants and buried them.  That was cruel.  I'm getting ready to publish a novel in Amazon.  I want to write my biography based on the truth story of my family history.  

Can you help me since I can't read or write Chinese.  I can speak little Teochew.  When I can afford to travel to Singapore, I will definitely stop to meet you in person.  Sia Sia.  Zhen Mei Eng.


www.ancientchina.co.uk/tombs/explore/west.html

[philiptancl]

Hi Mei Eng,

According Sima Zhen (司馬貞)'s commentary in Shiji (史記) (Records of the Grand Historian), Shennong (神農) is a kinsman of Huangdi (黃帝) and is said to be an ancestor of the Chinese. Shennong (神農) is considered to be Yandi (炎帝). The Han Chinese regarded them both as their joint ancestors); "Descendants of Yan and Huang" (炎黃子孫). If you are willing to accept that, then all of us would be from the same bloodline. If you are interested, I can forward you a chart showing some surnames are connected to each other.

I would think what are acceptable human and societal behaviors would vary greatly not only across different civilizations but also at different periods within each civilization. If we are troubled by what they were recorded in history, and we are not able to view them within the context of those times but could only measure them within what we are now in and within the societal norm we now living in, it is best that we should avoid exploring them in the history of the past.

I too am illiterate in Chinese; not able to read and write in Chinese. What I could do is extract the names, dates of birth and death from your ancestral records, i.e. your zupu ()/jiapu (), and convert into them into charts that I sent you. Some of the charts are already posted in this threat earlier.

Though I am going to Singapore in Dec 14 and 15, 2019 to give a talk and conduct two workshops there, I am not from Singapore. I am from Kuala Lumpur which is some 300km north of Singapore. You are welcome to meet up with me should you be in Kuala Lumpur.

Philip Tan

[trevor]

In Hawaii, 鄭/郑 is Chang. My Chang side is from Yongmo 雍陌 in Sanxiang 三乡镇.
Him Mark Lai mentions my clan in his writings of Zhongshan-Zhuhai-Macau: "When Xiangshan was established in 1152, Shiqi (Shekki) was selected to be the administrative center. A story tells of the circumstances surrounding the selection of the site. The Chen 陳 (Chan) clan of Kuchong (Fuchung) 庫充 near the present Shiqi and the Zheng 鄭 (Chang, Jang) clan of Yongmo (Yungmak) 雍陌 at Sanxiang 三鄉 were rivals seeking the county seat to be located near their villages. The leader of the Chen clan devised a winning strategy by mixing iron particles in the soil and then declaring that county seat should be located on a site with the most valuable soil. He then persuaded everyone that the heaviest soil would be the soil with the highest worth. When the judges weighed and compared the samples from the two sites, the soil at Shiqi was clearly the winner. From that day on the poetic reference for Shiqi became Tie Cheng 鐵城 (Tit Shing; "iron town"). Another version of the story states that in 1154 Chen Tianjue 陳天覺 spread iron particles on a site east of the market town Shiqi. A walled town with the county government was built there that was named Tie Cheng. The two was joined in 1921 when the city wall was breached and a connecting road was constructed."

[philiptancl]

Hi Trevor,

Would you by chance have the ancestral lineage for Chen Tianjue 陳天覺 as mentioned in your posting? I found a person with that name, 天覺, who is descended from 陳忠公, the progenitor for one branch of Chen (陳) in Fujian. 天覺 is the third of 4 sons of 昆實. The names of his brothers are given as 天學, 天舉 and 繼祖.

Would you have the pedigree lineage of your Chang (鄭/郑) side from Yongmo (雍陌) in Sanxiang (三乡镇)? Interested to see at which point is the connection with other branches of the surname.

Philip Tan

[trevor]

Hi Philip,

Sorry, I do not have anything for the people mentioned above. Unfortunately, I don't know anything about the Chang side. The only reason why I know the village name is through the of passenger manifests of my great-grandfather and an expert on Chinese in Hawaii has confirmed it to me.

Trevor

[douglaslam]

I learn something new here every time I log on. I had no idea, Shekki, my county hub which I go to almost everyday when I am spending time in my village, was called Tit Shing 鐵城 Iron Town.

Sanxiang, a booming "zhen" town which I do visit each year doing lunch and dinner with our member Carlos aka kaluosima's extended family there. Cheng is a big clan in Sanxiang. Black Rock, Ou Shek 烏石 is also a very well-known village among the many Cheng villages.

Fuchung 庫充 is closer to my village then Sanxiang is. I may make a visit there sometime next year for a case I am following through. I am chasing up on a Chan fellow from Sydney, Australia who left no clue except for his name and nothing on his home village.

Cheng is also prominent in my district namely Tai Pong Tau 大龐頭 and Ho To 豪吐. Our member from Panama, Gina alias ginagaladriel's ancestors are from TPT.

[FayChee]

Hello PhillipTan,
It has been a long time for me returning to the forum to help another person searching for their Ancestors.
Roy Chang has been here before looking for his maternal side, Seto.
He is also trying to fill in the blanks on his paternal side, Chang. Like me, he is illiterate in Chinese and the last of the elders who can piece together remnants of his family tree.
He inherited some old papers having to do with Land purchases, a partial hand-written tree, and a small book that had the words 'Genealogy' using the Google Translation App.

He is trying to find the name of of GGF and name of his Chang Village if at all possible.
He thought the Land Purchase document would have his GGF name as the Buyer, but a paraphrased translation showed the buyer to be an Ancestral Hall "Zheng Yong xing Tang" in Pinglan (I think)

I believe that this document indicates that his Village is somewhere in Pinglan, Zhongshan and maybe one of the 'Seller' could be a relative. His GGF may have been a director at that Ancestral Hall in order for him to have these 4 documents of purchase/sale.

Also, can anyone help clarify the hand-written family tree? Is Roy in Generation 27?

Is there a Zupu anywhere for the Zhengs of Zhongshan?

Lastly, Roy just found this little 5" x 8" booklet that contains pages of vertical characters in boxes....could this be a Zupu?

Thank you for any help.

Fay Chee









Is this a Zupu?

[FayChee]

Can anyone tell me how to get in contact with Albert Cheng of roots search program (Friends of Roots) I have been searching on Google for him but so far can not discover how to contact him. I was told that his Ancestral Village is Wushi in Sanxiang and he may have a copy of the Wushi Cheng Zupu. Maybe Roy Chang's family is in it. Thank you.

[philiptancl]

Hi Fay Chee,

Indeed it has been quite some time since I last hear from you. As you already have my email contact, it would be more expedient to write me directly rather than through the Forum as I don’t read or follow the postings on it on a regular basis. I have quite some others contacting me regarding Chinese genealogy, through other mediums, which I have to attend to. The Forum does not notify me of any actions required of me unless I log in, which I don't do especially when I am busy attending to other matters requiring my attention.

How is your progress with Roy Chang’s maternal side Seto surname clan search? As I see it, unless he knew the name(s) of her male ancestors' relatives of the same surname clan, my experience is you would not progress in the search. Unless the Seto clan is from the same ancestral place as yours and from the same zupu, I would think he would need to search for it from the ancestral village.

I suppose the surname Chang of Roy Chang is Zheng (鄭). From what you have posted, I would think he would have enough information to trace his Zheng (鄭)clan ancestry but he could either, go by himself, to the places quoted in the Land purchase document to search for his clan zupu, or engage someone to do so on his behalf.  From what I see Roy already has the jiapu (家譜) listing seven generations (from Generation 23 to Generation 29 of his family) but without the generations earlier than Generation 23 being provided. It is a matter of finding the particular Zheng (鄭) clan zupu to connect up.

From what I can see, Roy Chang name in Chinese character appears to be Rì Chū (日初) in Generation 27, his father is Wéi Guó (維國) in Generation 26. Grandfather is Huá Zhào (華兆) in generation 25. As a matter of interest, Tony Kind’s wife is also of the surname Zheng (鄭), though she is of Korean descent. I had a set of Zheng (鄭) from Huangdi down to someone in Chaozhouand she took over them when she and Tony Jing first visited me in Kuala Lumpur some years ago. 

Kind regards, 

Philip

[FayChee]

Thank you Phillip, I will pass this information to Roy. I am still researching his Seto side who immigrated to Hawaii in the late 1800's (~1889).

There was alot of turmoil around 1922 with crackdowns by Immigration and the Asiatic Exclusion Act..........in addition to Tong Wars, Tuberculosis and Spanish Flu killing people..

Best Regards,
Fay Chee

[FayChee]

Hi All,

Roy found a small piece of paper belonging to his dad that had these names on it. I tried to clean it up with Adobe Photoshop and then used Google Translate and this is what I got............

I guess the translation is in Mandarin and I think the name Kang is a Generational name??? Also, an address was a written at the bottom.....I think his Village is Pinglan.

An help with the names in Cantonese or Mandarin or Taishanese will be appreciated.