Convincing Elders to Contribute DNA

[wandererotd]

I've seen other posts which state difficulties encountered in explaining the worth of DNA for genealogical research to our elders.  Some have experience with this and might know (perhaps) what works and what doesn't - or what they had to do to succeed.

I'm new to DNA for genealogy, and have some elders who I'd like to get tested.

Wonder if others cold share their experiences?

Many thanks in advance.

Fred

[Doug 周]

Fred,

This question has the same components as getting permission to take a family history from a suspicious Chinese elder; it needs the same trust from your elders to take a DNA sample.

DNA testing can be a terrifying option for elders. It is an unknown and confusing science, scary, and filled with reports (movie Jurassic Park) that you might ‘clone’ people in a nefarious way and steal their life savings or soul via identity theft. In the USA, people used to give out their social security administration number freely before it became an identity theft issue against mainly the senior population. People see their DNA as their identity.

Most of my success has been with those I have established myself as a family historian, having carefully taken family interviews, with me proving that I protect this information as confidential and safe.

Don’t depend on others to do the simple task of physically taking the sample. You need to assuage the elders concerns personally. Make sure they know it is not a blood sample and they do not need to go to the doctor or phlebotomist. Even spitting into a small container might be difficult for your cousins to oversee their elders performing. This increases non compliance.

However, there are the incorrigible elders who, for many reasons, will never give DNA samples. Therefore, go back to your basic genetics.

The autosomal DNA tend to mix. A single strand from a chromosome will not necessarily originate from one parent. This is why autosomal DNA is not as good (yet) for genealogy. The best DNA for genealogical lineages is the Y DNA (males) and m-DNA (female mitochondrial).

For example, I want to reproduce the genome of my deceased father. The closest is his surviving brother, who adamantly refuses. My son’s and I have my father’s Y DNA. I would need to ask my father’s sister’s daughters or maternal grand-daughters for a DNA sample to get my father’s m-DNA.

Another example is that I want my mother's father’s genome reproduced. From my maternal uncle I got my maternal grandfather’s Y DNA. I will never get my maternal gf’s m-DNA because he did not have any sisters.

This information determines whom you need DNA samples now, and whom you can wait for a better future time to ask.

Confusing as this information is, it will become clearer when you draw out your family tree. This just confirms that DNA genetics will not help you (yet) draw your family tree. Just the opposite, it is your genealogical family tree which helps you with your DNA genetics.


Everyone Has Two Family Trees – A Genealogical Tree and a Genetic Tree ^click

IMHO

[kwkwlau]

It is not easy to convince someone to take a test especially a medical test. DNA testing is essentially a medical test. I got my mother to take the test only because she trusts me.

For genealogically purposes, we should have the tester's permission. So first of all, you have to get him or her to agree to help you. Without their consent, I think it is inappropriate to get the dna tested. I think older people are interested in their offsprings especially their well being. Perhaps there is an angle there to get him or her give up their DNA.

Technically, there is also a problem of spitting. Many older people have dry month and can not spit easily. The volume required can take 10 minutes to do. So it can be problematic. 

DNA can be helpful to genealogy but there are a lot of limitations. There are three main type of test that are at reasonable prices. You need to know which to take. They are Autosomals, y-dna and mitochrondria dna. 23andMe give an all around test. It is the best or one of the best autosomal test. It also includes some y-DNA and mitochrondria DNA. Y-DNA are useful in tracing family name because both family name and y-DNA are passed from fathers to sons. Autosomals are very accurate for one or two generations and good for finding/identifying relatives within four or five generations. To be truly useful, you need to have know cousins taking the test. Then it can be very helpful in identifying the relationships. 

On on the other hands, family secrets can be revealed by DNA testing. 

I have tested with 23andMe about 3 years ago because they have a good all around test and a large pool of testers (many of them are Asians). My wife found a lost second cousin using 23andme. Doug and I are connected in part due to 23andme. Also I have recently connected up with possibly someone from a granduncle, but more work has to be done. 

If if someone need help with 23andme, please contact me (Doug knows how to find me!)

Fred, best of luck!

[FayChee]

SAVE THE ENVELOPE!

Great news......today I read an article about how several DNA testing companies will be/are offering DNA testing on your old envelopes!!!

Yeah! I have my granddad's old envelope from 1940 and although I already know our DNA from my brother's testing, I still want to do my granddad's.....unfortunately, I don't have any old letters from my dad, but if they can find DNA on my granddad, that would be fantastic!

As you may have noticed, I have not been here for awhile....I have been sick, and my old heart has 'leaky' valves that keep me tired and out of breath most of the time.....Douglaslam, you are my spirit-brother, and we will always have a close connection, but I am not sure if I will ever make it to China to touch the walls of my Ancestral home. But we'll see, technology is moving fast and it just may happen one day.....fingers crossed........

Best to all my family here on Siyi!

Fay Chee

[Doug 周]

I don't see any links to navigate. I thought this was not available to the general public yet. Can you repost the url?

[douglaslam]

Fay Chee,

I knew you had health issues and it will always be your first consideration. Ideally, I and Henry as well, would like to see you in his group and be looked after every step of the way. No, we are not giving up hope of you picking up and join us one day.

You take care, sister.

Douglas

[FayChee]

Douglaslam,
I do plan to join you one day, hopefully soon.


Doug,
Here are a few links and excepts regarding DNA on old envelopes.......

totheletter DNALaunched in July 2018, we are the first company in the world to offer commercially-available testing of envelopes, postcards with stamp/s and aerogrammes from deceased relatives for genealogical purposes. We are based in Brisbane, Australia, and have clients from all over the world.Our current focus is to generate an autosomal DNA text file compatible for use with GEDmatch Genesis, a free genealogy database where people from all over the world upload their DNA file. If we are able to obtain sufficient quality DNA from our client’s sample, they are then able to use DNA from a deceased ancestor to understand more about their genealogy and family tree. 

www.totheletterdna.com/

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DNA Tests for Envelopes Have a Price - The Atlantic

In the past year, genealogists have been abuzz about the possibility of getting DNA out of old stamps and envelopes. In addition to MyHeritage, a British company called Living DNA began informally offering the service for $400 to $600 last year, and a small Australian start-up called Totheletter DNA, which specializes in DNA from envelopes and stamps, launched a similarly priced service in July. MyHeritage says its own service should debut later this year. (A spokesperson declined to comment on when Einstein and Churchill’s DNA profiles will be uploaded to the company’s site.)To limit the possibility for abuse in this, MyHeritage does not plan to test items such as toothbrushes, dentures, and old clothing. Since envelopes are usually postmarked and have a sender’s name written on them, it’s easier to validate that the item is what the customer says it is and not some secretly obtained sample. MyHeritage told me it plans to update its terms and services to prohibit uploading DNA profiles of living people that have been obtained through stamps or envelopes. But DNA from dead people, including dead celebrities like Einstein and Churchill, will be allowed.
www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/03/dna-tests-for-envelopes-have-a-price/583636/
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I asked David Nicholson, Managing Director of Living DNA, if extracting and testing DNA samples from old letters or postage stamps would be available to the general public and he confirmed that this service would be widely available by the end of 2018 at a cost of $1,000-$2,500. Look for family letters that have not been handled extensively, where the flap and seal are intact. If you have a large collection, try to find multiple samples. Nicholson noted that for Anthea’s case, tests from the postage stamp were more successful than those from the envelope flap.  Nicholson recommends storing letters and artifacts for future testing inside acid-free paper folders and boxes in cool, moderate conditions. Avoid storing items inside plastic due to possible moisture. “Just don’t freeze,” he warns. “That will damage the DNA. Store in a dry place that is not touched.”A good option is to place items in a breathable bag or box in a dry location. Avoid moisture and heat.
thefamilycurator.com/how-to-preserve-and-test-old-letters-for-grandmas-dna/