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Post by gckimm on Apr 6, 2017 11:03:06 GMT -5
In the Soo Hoo thread, Fay Chee posted on April 5 about her disappointment at hearing from someone at a local Chinese restaurant that she must be physically present at her father’s grave in order to observe Ching Ming properly. I was sorry she received that response. While that is certainly a valid opinion, there are many Chinese today who would disagree. The fact of the matter is that there are currently hundreds of millions of migrant workers in China who have moved from rural areas to cities to make a living and it is simply not practical for all of them to make their way back home to “sweep the graves” of their deceased loved ones, especially if they returned home for the Lunar New Year just a couple of months before this time. For this reason, there is now a proliferation of Chinese websites on which one can observe Ching Ming online. Many of these sites even have a virtual gravesite where one can place virtual flowers, as well as traditional offerings such as incense, candles, and food. Yes, these online observances are controversial, but the controversy doesn’t seem to bother all the people who take advantage of these sites. Here in the U.S. we have a website called Findagrave.com, of which I happen to be a member. It is basically an online cemetery, a totally free site on which people can create memorial pages for people who have died. You can include photos and biographical information and even leave messages and virtual flowers (in the case of my relatives, I also “light” virtual incense). As an example, here is the memorial for my great-grandfather: www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Kim&GSiman=1&GScid=8414&GRid=95322973&Please note that this site can be helpful, too, for people seeking Chinese genealogical information. Volunteers have photographed many graves in old Chinese cemeteries or Chinese sections of old cemeteries. I have translated for this site many headstones of Chinese who came to America and Australia from the Siyi region. I am of the opinion that what is most important is that we honor the memory of our deceased loved ones, not the way in which we do it. It may be ideal to be physically present at the cemetery but an observance at home or even online could be just as fitting if people are sincere in their desire to show respect for those who have gone before them. Greg
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Post by FayChee on Apr 6, 2017 13:49:35 GMT -5
Hi Greg, Thanks so much for the information about paying respect to our Ancestors. I will definitely check out your referrals. My dad is buried in the Chinese section of the Evergreens Cemetery in Brooklyn NYC, and it is quite a nightmare of traffic getting there.
Just before I read your post, I received an email from my niece and nephew saying that I could do Ching Ming in my yard and that they do it in their yard as well!
I am now back to being excited to make a place in my house and yard to honor my dad and Ancestors!!
Several times while readjusting my dad's headstone, I had to completely take it out of the ground and arrange the dirt and stones underneath to keep it from sinking into the ground. I took home some of the dirt and stones as a keepsake, and now I will use it in my Altars.
Yeaaaaah!
Fay Chee
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Post by FayChee on Apr 9, 2017 19:41:55 GMT -5
My brother and I did our first Ching Ming at home!!! I feel better now, hope it worked.... Fay Chee
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Post by helen on Apr 12, 2017 23:08:39 GMT -5
Hi Fay Chee
Great to see the photo.It looks so good.
My siblings have a photo of my parents at home - as my parents are buried miles away from us. My sister pours a cup of tea each morning - and leaves the fruit there for them.
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Post by chansomvia on Apr 13, 2017 6:57:07 GMT -5
Hi Fay Chee
I just returned from visiting the gravesites of some of my ancestors and put this on a youtube. It went the whole works. You can watch it on .
We went from Guangzhou to Jiangmen by train, then by private taxi to Haiyan where we spent a few days. Returned to Xin Hui by taxi then took a train back to Guangzhou.
The graves are just mounds of piled up earth with a weather beaten cement block with inscriptions long faded away due to neglect. These graves are cleared away of the overgrown weeds and bushes and small trees once a year on Ching Ming. This cleaning up was on 4th April 2017. You can ask me more of the ceremonies. No, you do not need to come back personally to the jungle clearing to pay respects to the dead ancestors. There are many hands held out as you can pay for the ceremony to be done for you. How elaborate it becomes is how much you are prepared to pay, expectations can be very high for those who come from the "Gold Mountain".
I can supply more details for those who are interested as how we travelled to the villages. We are both over 75, my wife speaks and reads Mandarin, Cantonese, and other dialects spoken by Malaysian Chinese. I speak Cantonese and Toisaanwah, the latter is hardly used by the public. Age, and the lack of language is not a barrier and those on this forum should be encouraged to see the old and new China to know more of China and its customs. The perception of real China to the Overseas Chinese has been warped by those who give advise, such as the need to be personally present to pay respects, and every advise must be examined and tested, and re-examined again.
You have done extremely well as shown on your photo.
For your information my father left China in 1931 to work in Mozambique, then to East Africa in 1934, my mother came from the Haiyan village south of Taicheng to marry my father in Dar-es-Salaam in 1936. My father got sick in Africa and left my mum and her 5 small children there in 1948, he died alone in Hongkong in 1949 where he went for medical treatment. I went to Hongkong in 1962 and my relatives took me on a fruitless search for my father's place of rest. We never found it although the scoundrels kept asking money from my widowed mother to remit money for Ching Ming every year to sweep the tombs.
Joe
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Post by douglaslam on Apr 13, 2017 7:31:54 GMT -5
Joe, you are setting a benchmark that is hard to surpass. I can see a whole roast pig, firecrackers, and everyone's involvement. That's what Ching Ming is about. It needs not and never meant to be a sombre event.
In a month's time, I should be in Auckland. I am flying out of Sydney on May 12 with a female friend from California. We are meeting for the first time since 1975. She comes to visit Sydney, then we are off together to meet our mutual friend in Auckland. I will definitely be meeting with Helen and her husband. Helen will also introduce me to some of her friends. Hope to see you as well.
Very exciting times ahead. Douglas
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Post by chansomvia on Apr 13, 2017 8:14:23 GMT -5
Hi douglaslam
Thanks for your information of when you arrive in Auckland. Auckland to Christchurch is a very busy route with flights nearly every hour and there are many specials floating around. You are invited to do a trip here, I have two spare rooms, and can take you around. The airport is 10 minutes away.
It would be lovely to meet you and your friend, my son worked in Los Angeles for 7 years and we went many times there, we drove all over the West Coast of the US and into Canada quite a few times.
We had an exciting time and Ching Ming was a real eye-opener. They tried to get an extra roast pig, more goose and chicken, extra rolls of firecrackers, maotai spirit, etc. and anything which they can screw out of the Overseas Returnee. No, the roast pig was not on me. No, I said I would have given the chappie whilst he was alive as many roast pigs as he could eat and not when he was dead and buried.
Just give me a call or email and we would be most pleased to look after you and your friend when you make it to Christchurch.
Regards
Joe
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Post by douglaslam on Apr 15, 2017 8:11:09 GMT -5
Joe, thanks for the hospitality. I do hope I can make it to Christchurch. There is plenty for me to do and see in New Zealand. And Helen has lined up people for me to meet, plenty of yum cha lunches I am sure. I still can't believe it takes well over half a century for me to make my first trip across The Ditch.
BTW is yum cha popular in New Zealand ? Douglas
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Post by chansomvia on Apr 19, 2017 4:51:56 GMT -5
Hi Douglas
Having just come back from Guangzhou and Jiangmeng which has some of the best yum cha places I would say that Auckland and Christchurch has equally good places to enjoy the lunches. I had some very good yum cha in the Marigold Restaurant in Sydney so this type of meal is quite well spread out in the world with the best chefs migrating out of Hong Kong and China and showing their skill. London, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Toronto and Vancouver also has excellent yum cha places.
We try to have a senior group yum cha every two months and it can be strange as the older Chinese do not have the notion of sharing the bamboo basket but they are slowly learning. You need to understand that in the 40's to the 60's the only place to eat out for the Chinese was the fish and chip shops, and the Chinese take-aways. So until the influx of the Hong Kong cooks yum cha was not a common thing for the older generation. Yum cha is now more popular for the younger generation and will be more popular a time goes on, and the opening of new restaurants.
Please look at your schedule and it would be very good if you and your friend can make it to Christchurch, accommodation and transport will not be a problem.
Regards
Joe
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Post by douglaslam on Apr 21, 2017 7:31:58 GMT -5
Thank you Joe. I am surprised yum cha is so popular in Christchurch because by comparison it is a very small population centre. I know the Marigold in Sydney very well. Yum cha did not take off until the late 1970s when the Cantonese arrivals increased in leaps and bounds through two amnesties and abolition of the White Australia policy. I wish you had inform me of your past visits.
My friends spends much less time in NZ as I do. She flies home about a week ahead of me. I have no rigid itineraries, which is the norm of all my travels. I go on impulse to places provided there is no time constraint.
Douglas
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Post by helen on Apr 28, 2017 3:55:48 GMT -5
Hi Joe - bit slow to catch up with your you tube. Looks like it was a successful trip back home.The photos look well - not many of you though. How was the weathar? cool enough? I'm so happy that you found the village. Helen
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Post by FayChee on Apr 28, 2017 6:37:59 GMT -5
Hi Joe,
Sorry I only just saw your post from April 13th. I love watching how everyone does their family Ching Ming as I learn something every time!
I also love to see other peoples Ancestral Villages and the love and kindness in the faces of the current Villagers. Another bonus is seeing the inside of the village houses and how they are arranged, the beauty of the walls and strength of the wood beams.
I will look at the YouTube video now and hope that you continue to add to them with your trips.
Thanks again,
Fay Chee
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Post by FayChee on Jun 11, 2017 12:15:40 GMT -5
Hi Helen, I missed your April post here, but wanted to thank you for telling me about how you and your siblings honor your Ancestors. It is very helpful to me.
Fay Chee
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Post by genekl on Apr 10, 2018 10:26:57 GMT -5
Many interesting stories here like all over the site, thanks to all of you!
My family is scattered all over USA and other parts of the globe. Just noticed my friends in Malaysia all busy with Qingming 2018. Catholics will postpone until All Souls in November but in China, Christian villages still go to the hills to pray and place offerings ("marks of respect") on the semi-circular graves that have the stone name tablets, etc.
Some of my family Christians are quite opposed to what they feel is idolatrous or superstitious. Can some of you suggest non conflicting ways of recognizing and honoring ancestors nowadays? (Pix welcome)
Gene in KL
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Post by gckimm on Apr 22, 2018 21:05:46 GMT -5
Hi geneki:
Sorry I did not see your post earlier.
The most conventional and non-controversial way of honoring ancestors is by visiting the cemetery and leaving flowers. If the cemetery is not nearby, I suggest, as I have mentioned above, creating a memorial on a website like Findagrave.com.
Here are some other ideas: 1) A family celebration or reunion, perhaps annually, to remember one or more ancestors and pass down stories to younger generations 2) Writing down stories about ancestors in the form of a book or manuscript and distributing it to family members 3) Making a donation to charity in memory of ancestors; you could even choose a charity that ties into the lives of those being remembered, for example, an organization dedicated to preserving the history of Chinese immigrants
Really, there are many different ways in which people could honor their ancestors today. Be creative!
Greg
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