Question about Chen Zupu

[wanderer]

On the 族谱 that I obtained from two elders at 东莞田头村, the handwritten title is 柳溪陈氏族谱

Is 柳溪 a branch off the main 陈 branch? Does it refer to an area or a particular ancestor?

I am still trying to make sense of the 族谱. The first few pages of the 族谱 begin with the first generation, 黄帝, and only in the middle of the book are there hand-drawn maps of 田头村, so what does 柳溪 refer to?

[lachinatown]

It does look like 柳溪 is referring to a location.
Moderator philiptancl should be able to help you wanderer.

[philiptancl]

Sept 17, 2018 5:31:18 GMT -5 wanderer said:

On the 族谱 that I obtained from two elders at 东莞田头村, the handwritten title is 柳溪陈氏族谱

Is 柳溪 a branch off the main 陈 branch? Does it refer to an area or a particular ancestor?

I am still trying to make sense of the 族谱. The first few pages of the 族谱 begin with the first generation, 黄帝, and only in the middle of the book are there hand-drawn maps of 田头村, so what does 柳溪 refer to?

Hi Wanderer,

柳溪 could be the name of a township in Jiangxi(江西). Apparently there is a very old zupu there entitled “江西柳溪陈氏谱源”. 田头村 could be a village hamlet within the township of 柳溪乡. I think 田头 could be a very common name within a town. For example in my ancestral place of Hushan (岵山乡), there is also a place called 田头.

Apparently there was one with the name 公 (1004~1065) whose Zi (字) is 彦约 and his Hao (号) is 八府君 as well as保昌公. In 1023, he was sent to Nanxiong (南雄), Guangdong (广东) Province. He had three sons whose names were 晦叔、宏叔、华叔. When you trace the ancestry from 柳溪陈氏族谱, do check these names as quoted. If they do match, I would be interested how see this Chen ancestry line would tie up with the others. Hope you can share your result or scan a copy of the 柳溪陈氏族谱 for me to view.

Philip

[philiptancl]

Hi Wanderer,

Further to my previous posting some minutes ago, I think 柳溪陈氏 could be a Chen clan. In my ancestral place website I could find mention of the following preface for this clan zupu:

1. 泰和柳溪陳氏宗譜序
2. 泰和柳溪陳氏九修族譜序
3. 九修泰和柳溪陳氏宗譜序
4. 柳溪陳氏十一修族譜後序
5. 柳溪陳氏十一修族譜序
6. 柳溪陳氏慶源圖序
7. 柳溪陳氏譜圖序
8. 南雄陳氏聯譜柳溪祠分譜十修序

Philip

[philiptancl]

Hi Wanderer,

Thank you for sending me the scan of the handwritten zupu. As you already knew, I am illiterate in Chinese and therefore not able to read and write Chinese. As the zupu is handwritten, it is even more challenging for me to figure out the characters as I would not able to see how most of the strokes of the Chinese characters should be. However based on my preliminary assessment and comparing with the source that I have, I could indentify generation 94 quoted in your zupu to be 文贊/憲章/宣成 (AD 482 - 548) from my source. Based on my source I could trace the lineage down to 承逸 (generation 108 as quoted in your zupu). 承逸is quoted to have settled in 柳溪 while his elder brother 承進 settled in 清溪. Based on my source I could continue tracing the lineage from 承逸 down to 積中 (generation 114 as quoted in your zupu). My source quoted 積中 to have two sons; namely 軾 and 彥約 while yours quoted the two sons as 軾 and 軝. 彥約 could well be the other name for 軝. If you refer to my earlier posting where 彥約 was quoted and taken from another source, his three sons 晦叔、宏叔、華叔 were quoted therein as well. From your zupu 軝 is quoted to have 7 sons and your zupu line follows his eldest son 晦叔 (at generation 116). Your zupu quoted the second son to be 弘叔. Note 宏 and 弘 in Pinyin is Hóng and both having similar meaning as well. My source quoted the son of 彥約 to be 華叔. So you can see considerable similarity.

If you are interested I can construct the pedigree chart from 文贊/憲章/宣成 (AD 482 - 548) down to 軾 and 彥約 from my source, and continue down to 忠/明良/孝顯 (generation 121) according to your zupu.

Philip

[wanderer]

Wow, thank you so much Philip. Yes, if it is not too much trouble, I would love it if you could help to construct the pedigree chart.

Do you know when my zupu ends? If there are only 26 more generations from 文贊/憲章/宣成, then it seems like my zupu ends in the distant past maybe around A.D. 1600? I was hoping it would be much nearer to my family than that.

[philiptancl]

Hi Wanderer,

I am in the midst of comparing of what are quoted in your handwritten zupu 柳溪陈氏族谱 with other sources. It would appear that are considerable number of generations missing. The last page seems to indicate generation 23. Following your copy of zupu, 23 generations after 忠/明良/孝顯 (generation) would add to 144 generations from Huang Di. If the other source is to be considered, then there would be 158 generations. Your zupu does not provide generation 13 to generation 18.

I shall email you the comparison chart after I have completed it.

Philip

[lchin]

Hi Wanderer,

I saw your posting on 柳溪陈氏族谱. That's my clan. This is a branch of Chen clan from Jiangxi China. Settled down in Dongguan and went to different part of the world.

Do you have a softcopy of this family genealogy book that share with me? 

my email: [e-mail]

Many thanks,

Leonard Chin
Hong Kong

[honfanchan]

I also happens to have a copy of family tree book of this too,which date back from long time till now.

[andytan]

Hey honfanchan,

My paternal grandfather's mother was from the Chin Clan.

Did you ever get a chance to digitize your Chen Clan Genealogy book?

Best,
Andy Tan

[andytan]

Hey Philip,

Would you by any chance still have the scroll of the Chen Clan from Taishan, Guangdong Province?

My paternal grandfather's mother was from the Chen Clan. Her name was Chen Kun Fang.

Best,
Andy Tan

[honfanchan]

Jun 30, 2020 12:54:45 GMT -5 andytan said:

Hey Philip,

Would you by any chance still have the scroll of the Chen Clan from Taishan, Guangdong Province?

My paternal grandfather's mother was from the Chen Clan. Her name was Chen Kun Fang.

Best,
Andy Tan

[honfanchan]

Jun 30, 2020 12:54:45 GMT -5 andytan said:

Hey Philip,

Would you by any chance still have the scroll of the Chen Clan from Taishan, Guangdong Province?

My paternal grandfather's mother was from the Chen Clan. Her name was Chen Kun Fang.

Best,
Andy Tan

[honfanchan]

Feel free to contact me by email , [e-mail]

[philiptancl]

Jun 30, 2020 17:15:46 GMT -5 honfanchan said:

Jun 30, 2020 12:54:45 GMT -5 andytan said:

Hey Philip,

Would you by any chance still have the scroll of the Chen Clan from Taishan, Guangdong Province?

My paternal grandfather's mother was from the Chen Clan. Her name was Chen Kun Fang.

Best,
Andy Tan

Hi honfanchan,

I have designed and constructed many scrolls, not only for the Chen (陳/陈) surname, but for many other surnames as well. Many of them were for those with surname Chen (陳/陈) descended from one of the seven sons of Chen Feng Tai (陳鳳臺)/Chen Hui(陳輝). These are not just from Chen Clan from Taishan, Guangdong Province. If you wish that I design and construct one specifically for you, you need to scan you zupu (族譜) and send it to me, pointing out who of your closest ancestor is listed within the zupu, and provide your exact relationship to him. The charts before Chen Feng Tai (陳鳳臺)/Chen Hui(陳輝) up to Huang Di are already constructed and they should be posted somewhere within the Forum.

Philip Tan