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Post by PattyL on Feb 17, 2019 9:18:18 GMT -5
My families are 5-6 generations now in the San Francisco Bay Area, California. Family origins in Xinhui. I am attempting to document the members of my family (who all have English names) with their given Chinese names. Unfortunately, by Gen 3, names are lost. I think we are also out of sync as Overseas Chinese how the Chinese traditionally grant the names. For example, my brothers are Gok Lien and Gok Ming. My sisters and I are Sau Fung, Sau Lai, Sau Jun. Sau comes from my maternal grandmother. Also, my girl cousins do not all have the same first name. 1) Who grants the babies their Chinese Names, paternal or maternal grandparents? 2) Aren't you supposed to keep the first character from the generational poem the same for boys, then another for girls within the entire family?
Both my grandmothers were orphans (one in China, the other in the US). I suspect the only one who knew what he was doing was my Yeh Yeh. After he passed, things went awry!
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Post by Henry on Feb 17, 2019 11:03:22 GMT -5
PattyL, Here are 3 slides based upon my birth & marriage names, that may help you understand Cantonese naming conventions. By the way, some families give all the children, both boys & girls the same middle name, as in my family. But, it looks like in your family, the boys & the girls each had the same middle name - according to gender. Henry    |
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Post by Doug 周 on Feb 17, 2019 11:20:46 GMT -5
FYI about types of Chinese names houseofchinn.com/ChineseNames.html From twoupman ; His book is probably one of the best intermediate Chinese genealogy resource. ... One of my next areas of interest is giving Chinese names to my American born family members who have never received it. I'll detail that in another post. They say you should go to the elders of the family or clan and have a name bestowed. I/we are the elders and don't know how to go about it... Follow his thread for a few post and especially look at your cousin’s gckimm response. FayChee did a lot of research for us Chinese illiterates. Ever since the the 1960 Cultural Revolution, since Mao destroyed the village governance along with the official zupu/jiapus, the choosing of names has been rather haphazard. I will emphasize first the male names, since China in the past has been a patrilineal society. The capping or coming of age ceremony bestowed the Zi (字) name, which was usually presented in the official zupu. There are milk and baby names, given at birth, and usually not repeated in public. For example, my deceased father-in-law hated his milk name; when he finally became of age (18), WW2 started, the Imperial Japanese army conquered his home city of Guangzhou, and he went off to fight the invaders. He gave me specific instructions never to place his milk name in his zupu, should it ever be found, and gave me his chosen Hao (號) name. Copies of the official zupu will indicate which name is which, forming an official census for village governance. Some of my Aunts will have milk names which mean: ‘Oh just another daughter’ I could not find my generation poem even though I own a volume of my zupu (thanks to Henry ). My sisters and their 1st cousins were given the same generational name, much to my intense envy. You will probably remember the song Tradition from Fiddler on the Root en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tradition_(song) Women’s names would be their surname with the character for clan (Shi or Shee) 氏. This is why when you view American census reports and passenger list, there are a lot of women called Lee Shee, Wong Shee, etc. Newbies have to realize that Shee is not a surname. My Uncle years ago contributed to his village zupu/jiapu and had his daughter’s name enrolled at the ancestral hall. Normally, the woman becomes part of the husband’s clan. Now that genealogy charts are computerized, they are not limited by paper volumes and can include women. This is why the largest family tree in the world (Confucius) just exploded in size within the past 2 decades. Tl;dr You can essentially choose the Chinese names of your extended family. The information is not placed on Chinese or American governmental census records. As wingjoe says, you are now the elder of the family. IMHO |
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Post by Henry on Feb 17, 2019 11:49:31 GMT -5
Dear Colleagues,
Chinese names is quite a topic, which is why I have given Patrick Chew - 2 workshop presentation slots for his amazing presentation on Names in our Chinese American genealogy workshops - and I know Patrick can do an entire day on the subject - just fascinating. Actually, I am thinking about having an all day session on Chinese Names in the Bay Area this Summer.
I come from a rather old fashioned Toisan family. In my family, my parents decided on our Chinese milk names and my dad decided on my Chinese marriage name. After dad passed and my younger brother got married, I assumed the duty of assigning his Chinese marriage name with my mom's approval. My parents had given my son his milk name, but, after he got married, I have also given my son his Chinese marriage name. Also, continuing the family's hardcore old fashioned tradition, knowing that probably over the forthcoming couple generations - this naming tradition may be forgotten - I went ahead and gave Chinese milk & marriage names to the forthcoming male generation in my family - just in case, they needed these names. I know that some might think I am sort of anal, but, it is what it is :-)
Al Chinn does a great job on his website on all matters related to Chinese & Chinese American genealogy.
My other friend, Emma Woo Louie wrote a book that I refer to all the time, Chinese American Names: Tradition and Transition.
Henry
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Post by PattyL on Feb 17, 2019 11:50:46 GMT -5
Henry,
So helpful! Looking at the diagram image #3, where does the word from Poem fall in the name? If my Yeh Yeh named my brothers Lee Gok Lien and Lee Gok Ming, is the assumption Gok is from the family poem for my brothers' generation or is the middle name origin arbitrary?
Patty
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Post by Henry on Feb 17, 2019 12:06:30 GMT -5
Doug, Since it has been a while since my Taishan nephew acquired a copy of your family/clan zupu for you - there may have been a recent update that now does include the generational poem used for marriage names in your village. Perhaps, not at the village level, but, there may be a Zhou ancestral hall or Zhou family association that has the new information that has been added to any of the recently published village/clan genealogy books. Recently, many villages & clan associations have been updating their genealogy books and have even traced the lineage from HuangDi ( Yellow Emperor ) down to the first ancestor of their clan to come to Guangdong province. Then, since you have a copy of your village genealogy book ( 30+ generations ) and it goes up through the founder of the village - up to the first Zhou progenitor of Guangdong province - then you can link it to the lineage from HuangDi down to the clan progenitor for Guangdong province ( 100 + generations ). I encourage you to seriously consider joining us for the Overseas Chinese Genealogy Workshop & Tours in Nov 2019. The researchers from Wuyi University do a great job and you will get a detailed village report prior to your arrival in China and escorted tour of the village and you can interact directly with the researcher and have follow-up research based upon the results of the village report and your questions & requests. Here is a link to my DropBox that contains the announcement for the 2019 Overseas Chinese Genealogy Workshop & Tours this Nov 2019. www.dropbox.com/sh/c3457n94n6c0j9j/AADbU9lxYsou3npa4LMme0dma?dl=0Henry |
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Post by Henry on Feb 17, 2019 12:19:33 GMT -5
PattyL, In chart #3, you need to remember that the family surname is not listed, so those 2 character names you see on the lineage chart are the second & third characters of the complete 3 character Chinese marriage name. The generational character from the generational poem is called the "bon pie" and is usually the second character in the marriage name - which is called the "hao". By the way, the generational poem, usually found in the genealogy book, is a poem that extolls the virtues and values that the clan should follow. It is usually around 32 characters, each character "bon pie" is designated to a specific generation - it is the pre-determined middle character for the male's marriage name. The Chinese names assigned to your brothers by your paternal grandfather - were they birth/milk names or assign after they were married - if after they were married - then "Gok" would be the bon pie from your family's generational poem. Also, you need to remember that Chinese genealogy books usually only list the names of males by their "hao" ( marriage name ), but, at the time the genealogy book was compiled, the younger, single males were listed by their milk names. Also, in NARA records, names of many young Chinese males on the ship's passenger lists were by their milk names and trying to find these names in a village genealogy book would not be possible since they were were not married at the time - but, if the village genealogy book was compiled just before they left the village - they may be listed under their milk name. This is the kind of information that you need to know to truly understand and appreciate your ancestry - I highly recommend that you attend our next Summer Chinese American Workshop in Las Vegas, NV June 23 - 27, 2019. You will benefit tremendously, especially if you are planning to attend the China workshop & tours in Nov 2019. I have attached the info on the Summer Workshop. Henry |
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