Changsha in Kaiping - Leung or Tom?

[sally2154]

Hello!  May I pick the brains of you very knowledgeable people please?

I have two Chinese ancestors who are not related as far as I know - Great grandfather Harm Goong and great great grandfather Leung Mang Yee.  I have characters for Leung's name but not Harm Goong.  I am guessing by process of elimination his clan name is Tom/Tan/Ham/Hom.  Neither ancestor left me much of a paper trail!

A very helpful DNA match has led me to Changsha in Kaiping.  His mother's clan name was Tom and she was born in Changsha.  Father was born not far away in Dik Hoi Heung and he was Yee.  Looking at the Changsha Heung I can see both Tom and Leung villages.

I have a few questions which I am hoping someone may be able to help me with.

Obviously my ancestor pronounced his name Harm, while the mother of my DNA match pronounced it Tom.  I am hoping that this means that they spoke different regional dialects and hopefully excludes Harm from being from the same area, which only leaves Leung Mang Yee.  Thoughts?  I am probably oversimplifying things I know but I'd love your take on this.

The only other bit of information I have is that Leung Mang Yee's father was a draper by profession.  My way of thinking is that this occupation seems more suited to a more urban setting such as Changsha - any thoughts?  

[Henry]

sally2154,

"Harm" is just another one of the various romanizations of the Chinese surname 譚 / 谭. This my surname, and I have seen it romanized as:

Ham, Harm, Hom, Hum, Taam, Tain, Tam, Tann, Thom, Tom, Tham, and Tan (official Pinyin romanization).

The 2 basic reason why romanizing Chinese with Western spellings varies, because there were no romanization standard until Pinyin, and because romanizations are very dialect specific. In the end, it is rather ironic that the actual Chinese character is used to clarify the confusion caused by varying romnizations of the Chinese name.

Looking at the List of Common Chinese Surnames: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_common_Chinese_surnames - you will note that this surnames is ranked 56 out of the top 100 Chinese surnames.

Much of the variations in the spelling of Chinese surnames was not self determined - it was usually by the official at the various consulates in Canton (Guangzhou) or Hong Kong that decided on the name spelling or the Western official at the immigration line in the port of entry that decided how to spell the surname.

Henry

[sally2154]

Thanks Henry for the information!  I am constantly learning...  
Sally.

[Doug 周]

Jul 11, 2019 6:34:58 GMT -5 sally2154 said:

...A very helpful DNA match has led me to Changsha in Kaiping.  …...

Can you share the details of how you found your relative via the DNA match? Please start a new thread in the DNA section so others can learn from your experience.

[sally2154]

That is an excellent idea Doug. I shall start up a thread in the DNA section.

[mailon]

Hi Sally,

My great-grandfather was a Tom from Kaiping, Changsha, South Gate Lane village 南闸里 or Nan Zha Li (Mandarin) or Naahm Jaap Leih (Cantonese).  I should have my DNA results from Ancestry in a week or so, so it will be interesting to see if we are a match.  I also have the jiapu from this village.  My Great-grandmother was a Leung.

Jul 11, 2019 6:34:58 GMT -5 sally2154 said:

Hello!  May I pick the brains of you very knowledgeable people please?

I have two Chinese ancestors who are not related as far as I know - Great grandfather Harm Goong and great great grandfather Leung Mang Yee.  I have characters for Leung's name but not Harm Goong.  I am guessing by process of elimination his clan name is Tom/Tan/Ham/Hom.  Neither ancestor left me much of a paper trail!

A very helpful DNA match has led me to Changsha in Kaiping.  His mother's clan name was Tom and she was born in Changsha.  Father was born not far away in Dik Hoi Heung and he was Yee.  Looking at the Changsha Heung I can see both Tom and Leung villages.

I have a few questions which I am hoping someone may be able to help me with.

Obviously my ancestor pronounced his name Harm, while the mother of my DNA match pronounced it Tom.  I am hoping that this means that they spoke different regional dialects and hopefully excludes Harm from being from the same area, which only leaves Leung Mang Yee.  Thoughts?  I am probably oversimplifying things I know but I'd love your take on this.

The only other bit of information I have is that Leung Mang Yee's father was a draper by profession.  My way of thinking is that this occupation seems more suited to a more urban setting such as Changsha - any thoughts?  

[sally2154]

Oh my goodness!  

I am so sorry, I have only just seen your message.I don’t know how I missed it!!!  I must have overlooked the email notification.

Thank you so much for your reply.  Sadly I don’t think you have come up as a DNA match for my mum, but perhaps you match one of her other DNA matches - do you have a match with a Daniel Pon at all?  Or his sister Jenny?

Daniels mother was Tom/Tan clan and was born in the 1920’s in Changsha.  I’m going to check again with mums and my DNA results specifically to see if I can find you - perhaps there is a small match that I haven’t yet noticed....!!M

I wonder - if I send you some information about my ancestors, would you have a check in the Jaipu and perhaps see if there are any leads?  Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!

[mailon]

Hi Sally2154, I also just read your message. I don't believe I receive automatic notification when someone posts here. My name on Anestry DNA is Cyndie Soo. I will look for Daniel Pon or Jenny. I cannot read Chinese as I am a 4th generation ABC, but I would be happy to send you a copy of my zupu. Please send me your e-mail address. Mine is [e-mail].

[LJ]

Hi Sally and mailon,

You can receive automatic notifications when someone makes a post, by clicking on that person's profile and clicking on the Follow button on the profile's upper right corner.

I hope this helps. If not, please let me know. I am now following you both, so I will be automatically notified.

LJ