|
Post by barbearl on Feb 10, 2020 19:23:50 GMT -5
FayChee, thank you. I am waiting to hear back from my brother in law. Since I haven't heard I am hoping that he is digging around in old boxes and will find something good. In the meantime I was curious about the zupu and wanted to look at it. I have never seen one before. Thank you for sending it.
Barbara
|
|
|
Post by barbearl on Feb 20, 2020 19:32:36 GMT -5
Well, I have not made any progress. My brother in law contacted his Aunt Helen, daughter of Chau Soo Hoo and she did not have any family names written in Chinese.
FayChee you indicated in a prior post that I may be able to pay someone to go to the village with pictures of my father in law in hopes of someone recognizing him. Do you know how I would go about something like this? Is there anyone at the Situ Library that would be able to help me?
Thanks Barbara
|
|
|
Post by FayChee on Feb 20, 2020 22:00:35 GMT -5
Hi Barbara,
Please contact 'Henry', he is a Moderator here on Siyi, you can send him a PM (personal message) and ask him about someone going to your Village or email him at "Tomclan@Gmail.com ".
Also, it is definitely worth going to the Situ Library with the information that you have (and photos). They may be able to look up your family tree and also contact your Administrative Village directly for information. Unfortunately, so far you can not contact them by the internet or email.
Fay Chee
|
|
|
Post by FayChee on Feb 20, 2020 22:17:59 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by barbearl on Mar 2, 2020 19:49:44 GMT -5
Hi, I have some photos that I will attach. May have to do more than one post to get them all uploaded. The first one is the outside of the family home in the village. The second one is the water tower in the village that my father in law financed. Not sure what it says on it. The third and fourth are inside the family home. The fifth and sixth are inside the home at the family alter. Does the writing at the alter help any? What is usually written on alters? Please let me know if any of this is helpful for matching up with the zupu. Thanks Barbara
|
|
|
Post by barbearl on Mar 2, 2020 19:50:38 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by FayChee on Mar 2, 2020 22:38:26 GMT -5
Hi Barbara, I hope someone will help us read the tablet.....I can only compare what I was told mine said with yours. Jason Wu made my Ancestral Tablet for my home altar about 2 years ago. Nice pictures.....on the Water tower, I can only make out the first two characters as 'Seto' , but don't know the last two. I compared your Ancestral Tablet with mine and found similar characters. 1- the middle vertical column refers to the origin place of the family name Situ/Seto/Szeto/Soo Hoo. 2- Taishan/Kaiping altars feature the previous 4 generations of ancestors, respective to the worshipper. 3- Customary order of importance is: middle, middle right, middle left, far right, far left. 4- Men are referred to by their marriage names after their death, ie. on the ancestral altar. 5- All the wives of an ancestor are worshipped. My tablet:
|
|
|
Post by jasonwu on Mar 2, 2020 23:25:36 GMT -5
Hi Barbara,
These are wonderful - there are 6 names included in the altar:
15th gen. 開德 Hoi Ak + 周氏 Chow Shee 16th gen. 端桐 Oon Hung + 余氏 Yee Shee
17th gen. 樹球 See Kue + 余氏 Yee Shee + 關氏 Kwan Shee
17th gen. 樹環 See Wan
17th gen. 樹契 See Kai + 譚氏 Hom Shee
19th gen. 宗榮 Dong Win + 鄧氏 Ong Shee
By checking the information of the first two generations, I ruled out the previous lineage that I found in the genealogy provided by Fay Chee, and instead I think the following lineage is the one we are looking for (the names in the rectangle are those of Kwong's parents):
Using the immigration docs, the altar, and the lineage, we can check for similarities and disparities across the board:
Relation to Soo Hoo Kwong
| Names in immigration documents
| Names in the altar
| Names in the lineage
| Father | Soo Hoo Yow Jung | 開德 Hoi Ak
| 開德 Hoi Ak
| Mother
| Yee Shee
| 周氏 Chow Shee
| 周氏 Chow Shee
| Himself
| Soo Hoo Kwong (Kong)
| 端桐 Oon Hung
| 端槐 Oon Wai
| Wives
| Mock Shee
| 余氏 Yee Shee
| 余氏 Yee Shee + 麥氏 Mock Shee (two wives)
| 1st son
| Soo Hoo Tai / See Kue
| 樹球 See Kue
| n/a
| 1st daughters-in-law
| n/a
| 余氏 Yee Shee + 關氏 Kwan Shee (two wives)
| n/a
| 2nd son
| Soo Hoo Chau / Wan / Charles
| 樹環 See Wan
| n/a
| 3rd son
| Soo Hoo Fung / See Kai
| 樹契 See Kai
| n/a
| 3rd daughter-in-law
| n/a
| 譚氏 Hom Shee
| n/a
| 4th son
| Soo Hoo Lung / See Git
| n/a
| 樹結 See Git / 超大 Chiu Ai
| 4th daughter-in-law
| n/a
| n/a
| 余氏 Yee Shee
| 5th son
| Soo Hoo Sen
| n/a
| 樹縯 See Yan / 雙大 Seng Ai
| great-grandson
| n/a
| 宗榮 Dong Win
| n/a
| great-granddaughter-in-law
| n/a
| 譚氏 Hom Shee
| n/a
|
In my opinion, the immigration documents may contain falsified information and romanization errors while the lineage may have typos. The altar will contain the most accurate information since it is believed to contain the spirits of the ancestors and is used for worship.
The two characters on the entablature of the home write 環廬 Wan Loo, or "Home of Wan," probably referring to Soo Hoo Chau / Wan / Charles.
Notice that the first three sons are included in the altar but excluded from the lineage, while the last two sons are included in the lineage but excluded from the altar. My hypothesis is that the first three sons might have never returned home, hence why their names and offspring are omitted from the lineages but are still being worshipped in Wan's house; while the last two sons might still have descendants around, hence why their families are included in the lineages and their offspring might be worshipping them in their current respective households.
Note: The generation numbers here are different from what I previously mentioned because the clan counts their generations from a later ancestor; however, both generation counts are included in the lineages provided by Fay Chee.
|
|
|
Post by FayChee on Mar 3, 2020 8:19:25 GMT -5
WOW! WOW! Jason Wu!!! What an absolute blessing you are for those descended from the Ancestors of the first house Seto!
You are a true scholar and I must thank you once again for solving this puzzle!
Now I will look in Volume 1 for Generations prior to G-16.
I feel beyond words now............Fay Chee
|
|
|
Post by FayChee on Mar 3, 2020 10:58:20 GMT -5
JasonWu and Barbara, Below are the pages of Kwong/Kong Soo Hoo, going backward from his parents (G21) to Generation 1 (Year 1127) Xuan Weng Situ-progenitor of the Situ Clan of Guangdong. I traced in RED the most direct route to G1.....the generations with more than one son may be wrong, because I didn't know which son to select. If you want them without the RED lines, I can post them too. Barbara, my family tree merges with yours at Generation 4......... Fay Chee
|
|
|
Post by jasonwu on Mar 3, 2020 12:43:57 GMT -5
Hi Fay Chee,
Great tracing work - we couldn't have done it without your efforts in searching through the genealogy!
So, this is how we all relate to one another in generational terms:
25th gen. - Barbara's daughter (19th gen. from Ancestor Xintang)
26th gen. - Fay Chee
28th gen. - myself (through my maternal great-grandmother)
However, all of our ancestors used different generational poems; as you have mentioned, you and Barbara share a common ancestor at the 4th gen. while I share a link with the both of you all the way up at the 1st gen.
Jason
|
|
|
Post by barbearl on Mar 3, 2020 14:47:16 GMT -5
This is amazing. I was hoping that the alter would be helpful, but I never guessed it would lead to this. I need to read this all again and understand it better, but I wanted to thank you guys for all of your help. I would never have been able to do this without you. Thanks again and I will post again after looking all this over. Barbara
|
|
|
Post by barbearl on Mar 3, 2020 19:34:38 GMT -5
FayChee, I noticed when reading your earlier post that you had a pedigree tree chart done by Philliptancl. I would love to have this made up to give to my two daughters. What information did you provide to him? Did you have to have all the names in the tree translated for him? Does the tree chart come as an email or did he mail you a copy? Lots of questions, thank you for helping me.
I think my daughters are gen 26. from what I can tell Kwong is 22, then Charles who adopted my father in law is 23. My father in law is 24, my ex husband is 25, then my daughters 26.
|
|
|
Post by FayChee on Mar 3, 2020 20:20:02 GMT -5
Hi Barbara,
Philip Tan is here on Siyi, send him a PM message and ask if he is still available to make these beautiful charts for you. The top yellow bar has a 'Search' button, search for Philiptancl, he is a moderator here, then click his name to send a PM.
He probably only needs the 3 pages of Zupu that I posted, plus current family names, and pictures would be a nice touch. I also added maps from the internet and photos from the internet....I had an old letter that my granddad wrote to my dad in 1940 put on my chart along with the translation.
He mailed the finished chart to me at that time, but now can attach the chart in PDF format that you can take to a Staples store (or print shop), and have it printed out yourself. If you have a Costco in your area, they now will print the chart on vinyl or poster paper in very large sizes (20" x 30"). My canvas family tree is 54" x 34 1/2"......very large!
|
|
|
Post by FayChee on Mar 3, 2020 20:24:51 GMT -5
JasonWu,
Thank you again for all your help!
Until we meet again!
My best warm regards,
Fay Chee
|
|