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Post by barbearl on Mar 5, 2020 18:20:18 GMT -5
Hi, Another question. On the first page of the zupu it lists the village of Xiachai also. Does that mean this zupu includes the people in the other village? I was told that my father in law was born there and than adopted by his uncle Charles (Soo Hoo Chau) and went to live in Yue Shan. His mother is Charles sister. The person she married has the surname Yum (or something similar). Does the zupu I have only include Seto and there would be another zupu for the Yum's in Xiachai? the two villages are right next to each other.
Thanks Barbara
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Post by jasonwu on Mar 5, 2020 20:25:46 GMT -5
Hi Barbara, The genealogy that Fay Chee provided was created by the Soo Hoo clan, so it does not contain information about other surnames. Xiao Hai, which precedes Yue Shan in naming convention, is an administrative village which is used to identify a group of smaller villages and hamlets, of which Yue Shan is one, inside of Chikan Town. It could be that the Yum village is one of those other villages within Xiao Hai. However, I was unable to find any 任 Yam villages in Hoiping County with the Village Database: link here.
Jason
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Post by barbearl on Mar 6, 2020 14:06:47 GMT -5
Jasonwu, thank you for that explanation and for looking.
FayChee, could you send me the zupu without the red lines.
Thanks
Barbara
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Post by FayChee on Mar 6, 2020 16:31:58 GMT -5
Hi Barbara, Here are the 3 pages of your Soo Hoo Family Tree:
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Post by barbearl on Mar 7, 2020 14:28:16 GMT -5
FayChee, thank you.
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Post by FayChee on Mar 8, 2020 6:39:01 GMT -5
You are welcome Barbara, glad we could help.
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Post by barbearl on Mar 10, 2020 13:09:58 GMT -5
FayChee, I sent all the information I had to PhilipTancl and he is having trouble tracing the tree back. He is asking for you to send him all the scans you have of the Seto zupus. Can you do this?
Barbara
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Post by FayChee on Mar 10, 2020 18:40:45 GMT -5
Hi Barbara, I'll sent him the 3 pages with the red lines. The problem may lie with the Generations that have more than one person (ie. 3 or 4 brothers), because I have no way of knowing which of the brothers to choose. In my case, the manager of the Seto Library in Chikan, Mr. Liang Szeto, personally indicated my Ancestors in my Zupu, so I didn't have to guess when there were more than one brother of a Generation. Perhaps Mr Philip Tan can just list all of they siblings for a Generation with more than one person, and make a note it is not clear which brother it was. Below is Mr Liang Szeto actually writing my family tree from the old Library Seto Zupu's.......I had hired Henry's nephew to travel to the Library and photograph my Family Zupu.....he took this photo while Mr. Szeto copied my family tree.
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Post by barbearl on Mar 10, 2020 19:47:24 GMT -5
this is what Philip said
From Volume 6 of the Zeto Zupu that you sent me, I guess the name of the ancestral village of your ancestor would be Xiao Hai Yue Shan Cun (小海月山村). If that is so, then the series of generation names that would apply to you lineage would start from Generation 16. From what I can see there are other volumes for the Zeto Zupu and from them they that would provide details from Generation 1 to Generation 16. From majority of other surnames zupus, which I am familiar with, are to form as a general guide, I would guess there would be other volumes that would provide other details of your ancestors. You have not forward these other volumes of Zeto Zupu.
It would be good if Fay Chee could provide the scan of all volumes of the Seto Zupu
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Post by jasonwu on Mar 10, 2020 22:40:02 GMT -5
Hi Barbara, I believe Fay Chee has provided the 3 pages required to trace a continuous lineage, spanning from Generation 1 to Generation 22. Here are my annotations:
Jason
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Post by barbearl on Mar 11, 2020 12:45:46 GMT -5
Thank you, I wasn't exactly sure what he was looking for so I posted his request to make sure.
Barbara
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Post by FayChee on Mar 11, 2020 20:22:33 GMT -5
Hi Jason,
Thank you for adding the names to the 3 pages of Barbara's Zupu. I will send them to Philip Tan by email.
Barbara, I have been in touch with Philip by email, and sent him the 23 pages of the Yue Shan Zupu from Vol 6, but I don't believe that I have anything that could determine the Hui (諱) or Ming (名) name, or Zi (字) name, or Hao (號) name of the male ancestors......these names and other information may be found in an older copy of your family Zupu or Jiapu. Also, an old Zupu might include details of adoption and from the person within other members of the clan a person is adopted from.
Although Mr Tan can make a chart with the single names that we have from the New Zupu, you could update it later if you get someone to go the Village or the Seto Library in Chikan and photograph the old zupu.
Fay Chee
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Post by barbearl on Mar 11, 2020 22:52:29 GMT -5
Thank you FayChee and Jasonwu, you guys have done so much to help me with this. I am going to give the chart that Philip makes to my two daughters. I haven't told them much about it so I am sure they will be surprised with how much we have accomplished.
Barbara
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Post by barbearl on Mar 15, 2020 13:12:12 GMT -5
Hi, Something interesting. My brother in law showed the zupu to someone and he says on page 14 at generation 25, the group of 3 names is him, Ted and his two brothers, Rick and Kim. Above that is his father Don and above that is Chau Soo Hoo and his father Kong.
I wonder why they just didn't continue the tree on page 13? They repeated a lot of the tree on page 14 and added more.
I could not get the image to post here. some message about exceeding the forum limit
Barbara
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Post by jasonwu on Mar 15, 2020 15:30:00 GMT -5
Hi Barbara,
Wow - we completely missed the other part of the family tree which includes See Kue (Tai), See Wan (Chau), and See Kai's (Fung's) descendants. In some genealogical texts, the editors will segment family trees to maximize page usage and condense the lineages. This changes some observations in my earlier post.
Interestingly, the complete family tree shows that the 5 "See" brothers are actually first cousins from a common paternal grandfather, namely Hoi Ak, rather than from one father, namely Kwong. Here is a 3 generation family tree beginning from Hoi Ak:
Generation number and name
| Spouse(s)
| Immi.
| Altar
| Lineage
| ⑮ 開德 Hoi Ak | 周氏 Chow Shee |
| ✓
| ✓
| ⑯ 貞祥 Den Ten
| 黃氏 Wong Shee
|
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| ✓
| ⑰ 樹球 See Kue aka 廣大 Kwong Tai | 余氏 Yee Shee + 關氏 Kwan Shee | ✓
| ✓
| ✓
| ⑯ 端桐 Oon Hung aka 明智 Ming Dee | 余氏 Yee Shee |
| ✓
| ✓
| ⑰ 樹環 See Wan aka 超大 Chau Tai | 余氏 Yee Shee | ✓ | ✓
| ✓
| ⑰ 樹昌 See Ten | 譚氏 Hom Shee |
|
| ✓
| ⑯ 端榆 Oon Yee aka 炳元 Bing Yuen | 黃氏 Wong Shee + 余氏 Yee Shee | ✓ |
| ✓
| ⑰ 樹啓 See Kai aka 宏大 Fung Tai |
| ✓ |
| ✓
| ⑰ 樹奕 See Yet | 譚氏 Hom Shee |
| ✓
| ✓
| ⑯ 端槐 Oon Wai aka Kwong | 余氏 Yee Shee + 麥氏 Mock Shee | ✓ |
| ✓
| ⑰ 樹結 See Git aka 龍大 Lung Tai | 余氏 Yee Shee | ✓ |
| ✓
| ⑰ 樹縯 See Yan aka 雙大 Sen Tai |
| ✓ |
| ✓
| ⑯ 端渠 Oon Kui aka 國棟 Kwok Oong | 余氏 Yee Shee |
|
| ✓
| ⑰ 樹纘 See Dan aka 榮大 Wen Tai | 余氏 Yee Shee + 方氏 Fong Shee |
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| ✓
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According to the family tree, only See Git (Lung) and See Yan (Sen) are sons of Kwong and Mock Shee; while See Kue (Tai), See Wan (Chau), and See Kai (Fung) are their nephews. Could it be that the 3 nephews were "paper sons" of Kwong and Mock Shee?
Jason
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