Look for village in Taishan, Jiujiang, Xinyaochong

[dragon008]

Hi,
I'm helping a friend, who is looking for his paternal village in Taishan, Jiujiang, Xinyaochong. The family name is Jung (曾) and from the family's conversation, Jiujiang (九江), is near Chikan (赤崁), but I was unable to locate the village, Xinjaochong (新腰冲), nearby. From Google and Baidu maps, Jiujiang and Huiyuan (九江 汇源) point me toward Guangzhou area, which not the right area.  Here's the information on the village that was given to me: 九江北方汇源约新腰冲. Can someone help?
Thank you very much,
Dragon008

[gckimm]

Hi:

Extensive Googling of the characters you provided has turned up nothing. I suspect that there is an error somewhere, either with the geography or the characters or both. Could you please go back to the family making the request and ask them to provide something showing more specifically the administrative divisions indicated by the characters--for example, city 市 or county 縣, town 鎮, township 鄉, village 村. If they got these characters from a grave marker, a return address on an envelope, etc., it would be helpful to see a photo of the source.

Greg

[dragon008]

Hi Greg,

Thank you very much for your effort and I have his only clue that was provided by his uncle.
.

My friend will try to obtain more information and will communicate back to you.

Thanks, again

Dragon008

[Henry]

Dragon008,

Based on the uncle's instructions, I doubt if the village is located in Taishan county or Chikan, Kaiping conty. If you took a taxi from Guangzhou - it would be over a 100 miles - 2 hour drive.

Hence, I believe the Jiujiang is the place in Nanhai, about a 45 minute - 35 mile drive from Guangzhou. From Jiujiang it is about a 10 minute 3 mile drive to Xin Chong:

www.google.com/maps/place/Xinchong,+Nanhai+District,+Foshan,+Guangdong+Province,+China/@22.8379411,113.0203678,15z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x340241b934067f0f:0xeab34ce4451af3ce!8m2!3d22.837922!4d113.029144?hl=en

This Xin Chong may be the village you seek and the village name was shortened from XinYaoChong to just Xin Chong.

I am not Chinese literate, but, since Greg is Chinese literate, he may be able to find some information on the change in village name from an online gazetteer.

Henry

[robert123]

Hi Dragon008, I guess the Taishan and Chikan (赤崁) location you mentioned came from someone other than your friend's uncle. There is a place named Huiyuan 汇源(匯源) in Taishan and another place named Chikan (赤坎) about 6 km south. The character "kan" of Chikan isn't quite the same as the one you had written so it needs to be confirmed with your friend.

Google Maps: Huiyuan 汇源, Chikan (赤坎).

[gckimm]

Hello again:

First, the bad news. The internet does not seem to contain one single reference to a Xinyaochong/Sun Yiu Choong. It seems to be nonexistent not only in Guangdong Province but also in all of China. There is not even a “Yaochong” with the characters given. There are plenty of places with Xin 新 or Chong 冲 but no 新腰冲. Usually, if there has been a name change—and name changes are endless in China—there is at least some reference to it somewhere. But I have, unfortunately, found nothing.

The good news is that I think your friend’s ancestors did come from Jiujiang/Kow Kong Town, Nanhai/Namhoi District, Foshan/Fatshan City. There are a lot of people from the Zeng/Jung clan (and the Guan/Kwan clan) there. In fact, I found an article written specifically about the Zeng clan of Jiujiang Town, Nanhai District, Foshan City. In this article, the writer lists 51 generations of Zeng ancestors from this area: blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_4cb90bd20102ya71.html.

I did find a couple of references to Huiyuanyue/Wui Yuen Yeuk 汇源约 in a village called Shaju/Sah Jui 沙咀村 in Jiujiang, Nanhai, Foshan. But I don’t know what it is. 约 usually means “agreement” but I have seen it also refer to a building in which agreements were signed, sort of like a village meeting hall, so this may be the name of a building. On this Zeng clan website page dating from 2010, Shaju Village is listed as having 106 Zeng households or 435 individual Zeng clan members. According to this list, the village contains one of the larger communities of Zeng clan members in Jiujiang: www.zengshi.net/bbs/mini/default.asp?action=a&b=671&ID=89006&page=1

I’m sorry that I can’t be more helpful. These characters are a real puzzle. I think your friend needs some other clues in order to figure out his ancestral village. For example, it would be great to find a grave marker with the name of the village on it.

Greg

[dragon008]

Hi Henry,

Thank you for the information on Jiujiang in Nanhai and the Google's coordinates. I would have never given any thoughts of XinYaoChong, being shortened to Xin Chong. I'm still learning my way around in locating various villages, so thanks for the insight. I'll talk to my friend to see if provide any additional clues and will get back to you.

Dragon008

[dragon008]

Hi Robert123,

I noticed that the map that you show Huiyuan is different that the google map that I'm accustomed to seeing. It's not Sogou, nor Baidu Maps, or is this a Chinese version of Google map? I would like to see Huiyuan and Chikan on this site in a more panoramic view to get a perspective of theirs location. Thank you for your input.

Dragon008

[Henry]

Dragon008,

The website Robert123 is using is: map.tianditu.gov.cn/

This is from the National Bureau of Surveying and Mapping of China.

It provides larger scale mapping with more detail.

Henry

[dragon008]

Hi Greg,

Thank you for your insight on the Zeng clan. You have provided plenty of information on the Zen clan, if he desires to proceed with his family line. With your and Henry's information on the village location in the Nanhai District, Foshan City, this will give him a starting point. 

I'm thankful for the amount of time you spent on providing such wealth of information. 

As he proceed with his quest to look for his paternal village, I know he'll be grateful for your guidance.

Finally, thank you all, to you Greg, as well as, Henry and Robert for your help.

Best Regards,

Dragon008

[dragon008]

Henry,

Thanks for the website of the National Bureau of Surveying & Mapping of China.

Dragon008

[dragon008]

Hi Henry, Greg, and Robert,

I've received additional information from my friend. One is a gravestone marker of a close relative that provided the location of my friend father's birthplace as: Nanhai Jiujiang township (thank you, Henry) and with Greg's discovery that this Jiujiang/Kow Kong Town has a lot of people from both the Zeng/Jung and Guan/Kwan clans, strongly suggest this is the birthplace locality of my friend's father. He will need to reach out to relative(s) if the name of the village, have been changed to Xin Chong. Also my friend provided another document, a passport that listed Kaiping/Hoiping, as the foreign address, and for all these years, he thought this was the location of his father's birthplace .

Thank again for all your help,

Dragon008

[dragon008]

Sorry, forgot to send the attachments: 

[gckimm]

Hi:

Yes, if the headstone is that of a close relative, it verifies that your friend's family comes from Kow Kong but, as you may already know, there is no village mentioned.

One possibility is that the Hoiping reference is the result of a "paper son" situation; perhaps this gentleman arrived in the U.S. using the identity of someone from Hoiping. However, it would be unusual for someone from Namhoi to use the identity of someone from Hoiping, as the local dialects are very different. Of course, if he were skilled in speaking both dialects, he could pull it off. He could have also just lived in Hoiping, even though he was born somewhere else.

Greg

[lachinatown]

It is possible that he moved to Hoiping before he came to Los Angeles. Passport only indicated his address at that time.
Whereas the headstone indicated his birth place.

Our passport address was from Hong Kong, no mention of Taishan.

BTW: Hop Sing Tong Association is at 428 Gin Ling Way, Los Angeles, CA 90012, Chinatown