Regarding ancestor veneration

[jessie]

Hello there I am Jessie I am 15 and quarter Chinese, I am a descendent of the Lim clan . My grandfather Ming Ngai Lim died on July, 20 , 2020 . And I was curious to know how I may honor and venerate my grandfather And ancestors in the proper way . If any of you could please teach me or give me some knowledge on how to or the certain rites and rituals that must be done . Thanks

[Henry]

The system burped - did not complete post - sorry. Henry

[Henry]

Jessie,

" Qingming, also known as the Ching Ming Festival, is a Chinese custom also found in other Asian cultures and celebrated around the world. Sometimes called Tomb Sweeping Day or Pure Brightness, which is the literal English translation of qingming, this celebration is held annually. Set aside to remember and honor ancestors who have passed away, it is the second of 24 solar terms on the Chinese solar calendar and falls between April 4 and April 6 each year. "

The customs for Qingming may vary, however, our family is Cantonese and our origins are in Taishan, Guangdong, China.

Here is what we do:

1 Visit ancestors graves- clean gravesite

2 Bring a whole chicken with the head & feet still attached, piece of roast pig, a whole fish and all the favorite foods that the ancestor enjoyed,dim sum, apples & fruits, etc. Whiskey & beer, with 3 cups and 3 pairs of chopsticks, etc. All food has to be unwrapped from containers. Paper items like money, clothes, house, car, and lots of items, like TV, cell phones, etc to burn all of it & send to the ancestor. All is laid out in front of the grave. Take the incense sticks - 3 sticks at a time, bow 3 times before lighting them & bow another 3 time after they are lit and place in front of grave.

3 i usually speak to my parents in Chinese and as a christian pray for them. veneration is honoring your ancestors - it is not a form of ancestor worship - so, please do not get confused about this.

4 Afterwards, everybody enjoys having a kind of picnic at the gravesite. Make sure you pick up all the trash, do not start any fires.

Henry

PS - We also bring live & plastic flowers and we even share some food & incense with the neighbors of our ancestors.

[jessie]

I will for sure be careful not not leave trash or fires unattended. That’s very much amazing and great to know . Thank you so much for this valuable knowledge . And another thing I found fascinating was you and your ancestors come from Taishan, Guangdong, China so which is the same place my moms Neng-Neng and Yeh-Yeh and their family are from they are both still alive but they immigrated to the US in the 1960s . And yes I do know there is a difference between ancestor worship and ancestor veneration but I don’t know the exact difference if you could elaborate on that more that would be very much appreciated

Jessie

P.S
It was good to hear about the costume from you because our ancestors have the same traditions and rites because we come from the same area.

[Henry]

Jessie,

I believe the difference between ancestor veneration, in terms of paying respects & honoring, as opposed to ancestor worship - is based on personal feelings.

Not so much in the context at the cemetery but, at home, where there is an alter with a photos and sometimes people also have the 3 Chinese statutes for good luck, good fortune, and longevity and for some Christians, they believe this is worshiping idols.

Personally, I do not see any difference for Catholics that light candles in the church where there are statutes of Jesus & Madonna. Ultimately, I believe it is how you personally feel.

My parents were rather old fashioned where when I got married, I was given a marriage name in accordance with common customs in the villages of China. Since I am also old fashioned, I carried this tradition on for my son - even though this custom has become obsolete.

Since you are still fortunate to have your paternal grandparents with you - you may want to confirm a burial custom for people that come from the Taishan area, in some burial plots, two coffins can be stack upon each other in a burial plot. My parents specifically did not want this - so in the family plot, we had a directive to this effective - signed by all my sibling owners.

Henry

[jessie]

Henry
I do agree with you or at least have the same view of that having a ancestor altar with pictures of the ancestors or small idols of the 3 gods is no different then what Catholics do in their churches or sometimes even home shrines. After my grandfather passed away my great grandparents instructed that We set up a ancestor altar for our house so which we have now done and a ancestor tablet was made for him . The thing is I’m not to familiar with what rites or rituals should be done at the altar. And regarding visiting the cemetery unfortunately for my grandfather I can’t he was cremated so I can’t do much about that, especially on holidays like Ching Ming.

But I will for sure check with my great grandparents about the burial custom. And that’s very fascinating about the Chinese wedding name. I greatly love learning the traditions to continue them and preserve them .

Jessie

[Henry]

Jessie,

It is very nice that you have an ancestor alter at home.

Your grandfather's urn with his ashes can be place in the alter with a nice photo, the small Chinese idols, with some apples, or tangerines and a sand container for the burning of incense whenever you are thinking about him. Instead of going to the cemetery, you can still do the same veneration with the food & burning of incense & paper money, etc during Qingming or on his birthday. We also did it for special holidays like Thanksgiving and Christmas - just do it outside in the yard or on the deck.

Henry

[jessie]

Dear Henry

Thank you so much for your help and knowledge with all of this . I hope I’m not bothering you with too many questions haha .

I will for sure do those things on Ching Ming. And do the other things on other days of importance. If I may ask what dose one do with the food offerings after they have been offered? Or a better question how are they properly discarded? And I will soon place the Fu Lu Shou on the ancestor altar . Thank you again:)

Jessie

[Henry]

Hi Jessie,

No problem with questions :-)

We ABC seniors are more than happy to try to *s, especially from the younger generations.

At the cemetery, after the offerings, we have a picnic and eat some of the food, the remainder is taken home. It is the same for offerings at home, afterwards, the family has the offerings for dinner / lunch.

Wow, you know the names of these statutes :-)

Henry

[jessie]

I’m glad to hear Henry
And I’m also very happy to see that you want to help the younger generations learn it’s a truly great thing .

And thanks for the information about the offerings aswell I’ll be sure to apply this when offerings are made . And yes I do know the names of these statues haha a lot of people are surprised when I know about them but I must credit my great grandmother with teaching me about them.

Are there any specific or special days when the Fu Lu Shou are venerated/worshiped and if so are there any specific rituals for them or prayers ? Thanks

Jessie

[gckimm]

Hi Jessie:

Regarding the difference between ancestor veneration and ancestor worship, I think this definition of "worship" from the Merriam Webster Dictionary is helpful: worship is "to honor or show reverence for as a diving being or supernatural power." In Taishan, where the ancestors often appear to be more important than gods and goddesses, many people do regard them as spiritual beings who can have an influence--positive or negative--on daily life. For me, ancestor veneration means simply honoring the memory of deceased family members. People of every culture do that but they do it in ways that appropriate to their own cultures. People in the West bring flowers to a grave; Chinese people bring incense, food, etc.

If one has some kind of ancestral shrine at home, it is common to offer incense each day. On special days, such as a birthday or a festival, offerings of wine, food, and flowers might be added. Traditionally, there are four main times to honor the ancestors: the Lunar New Year (usually New Year's Eve); Ching Ming/Qingming; Chung Yeung/Chongyang; and the Winter Solstice. Of these four, Ching Ming and Chung Yeung (9th day of the 9th lunar month) are primarily cemetery observances rather than home observances. The Winter Solstice takes place around December 22 each year. Family members also commemorate the birthdays and sometimes also the death anniversaries of their loved ones.

As for Fu Lu Shou (or in Cantonese, Fook Look Sau), the three Star Gods, their statues are commonly found in homes as auspicious symbols or art objects but I don't know of any rituals associated with them. They are not normally found on altars.

Greg

[jessie]

hello Greg 

Thank you so much for your great and valuable information . And for sure ancestor veneration exist in every culture.  having a jewish dad and a Chinese mom is a odd mixture of customs in traditions. 

And it was particularly interesting to know that the ancestors are viewed as more important in Taishan than gods or goddesses. And also thanks for the long list of auspicious days for veneration. 

and that’s good to know about the Fu Lu Shou . At my Great grandparents house they have these statues on their Mantel Above the fireplace along with pictures of their parents and grandparents.

This is our household altar/shrine  

Jessie

[FayChee]

Hi Henry,

I wish that I had found your post about performing Ching Ming at the grave before this past weekend. I missed a few important steps when I did it this past Aug 7th, 2023.

I met my half-sister's son for the first time and we went to my dad's grave in Evergreen's Cemetery, Brooklyn NY. I searched my files for the steps that my Nephew Shik showed me in 2013, and even made up a long cheat sheet, but in all the excitement and threat of a thunderstorm, I rushed and forgot to bow while holding the paper offerings before burning them..........I won't forget next time.

Here are a few pictures of our Ching Ming for my dad 4 days ago.....

My best to all.

Fay Chee

[Henry]

Dear Fay Chee,

It looks like you did fine.

In the stores in Chinatown - you can usually find the ventilated red colored cans with a lid to burn the paper money & paper objects representing gifts, clothes, cars, watches, etc. Make sure you have a long metal handle ( straight tire iron ) to poke the fire for even burning.

For the red wax candles & the incense sticks, we take 3 sticks bow 3 times before lighting & bow 3 times after they are lit before sticking them in the ground or soft block of styrofoam. Make sure you have a pail of water available - just in case some sparks fall on the grass to stop any fires.

In Hong Kong, when I went to visit my maternal grandmother's grave in a Catholic cemetery - they would only allow flowers. But when I visited my maternal grandfather's gave in Xinhui, we did it all - I was so happy that I made these two cemetery visits - something I always wanted to do all my life.

When I cannot visit the cemetery, I do everything that I would do at the cemetery during Qingming on my patio & have photos of my parents & ancestors.

Henry

[FayChee]

Hi Henry,

Thank you for explaining the process clearly. I will amend my protocol to add the bowing with 3 unlit incense sticks, lighting them, then put them in the gourd.
after putting them in the gourd, we then pour the 3 cups of bourbon in front of the tombstone, correct?

Are the two candles lit before the we bow with the unlit incense?

I did have a basket with the 'Hell' money and paper ingots, but forgot to hold them and bow 3 times before we went over to the large fire can to burn them.
It was pretty windy there and although I saw the small red burning can, I thought it would be safer to go to the larger can to do it.