tt
Member
Posts: 5
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Post by tt on Dec 28, 2020 19:24:25 GMT -5
Hey, So I tested for the DNA and I got 4% Korean which is as far as I know unknown in my family. My family is historically Chinese/Taiwanese and there were some talk about us potentially being Mongolian but never Korean. Can anyone help on how it got into my family or...... The side of my family that is most plausible to be the side with Koreans is from Jiangsu (shanghai) and Zhejiang (Dinghai, Zhoushan). The other side is historically from Fujian (in Taiwan since late 1700s).
Also, can anyone give me any details on my family? (sorry if its a broad question)....here's some details: mom's dads's side: my 5th great grandfather: 沈烏定 born in Yuantan Village, Anxi County, Quanzhou, Fujian
mom's mom's side: related to Founder of Yongfeng Yu Group 何傳 (im pretty sure if you plug in his name on the internet, you'll find him) (she's his 2nd cousin) 何傳's grandfather is 何旺....dont have any details about his grandfather besides he was a trader of sorts and he was from Tong'an, Xiamen, Fujian (edit: old name was Yin'tong'an)
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Post by mitch on Dec 28, 2020 23:41:37 GMT -5
Hi, I had a similar result but not with Asian ancestry.
On my father's side is Scottish, pretty much as far back as you could go. However, it does say 4% Irish.
I've done my ancestry tree going back to the early 1700's and there is no one on that tree who was from Ireland or who was ethnically Irish.
From what I understand with my DNA test, is that the Irish is actually ancestral maybe half a century or so ago.
From what I understand from it is the following:
You are apparently 4% Korean like I am 4% Irish.
4% can be represented by roughly 1 great-great-great grandparent.
OR
4% can be represented by roughly 5 great-great-great-great-great grandparents.
This can be anywhere in between, even going back further than 7 generations.
But out of these people, they don't need to be full blood Korean. they could be half Korean and it just so happens that there was also another half Korean in the same family at a different point in time.
The possibilities are really endless.
Hope this helps.
Happy hunting!
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tt
Member
Posts: 5
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Post by tt on Dec 29, 2020 0:36:57 GMT -5
Thanks Mitch! And what you said definitely makes sense. The possibilies really are endless
The thing is I'm scratching my head about how the heck the Korean guy (or woman) even entered the family. As far as I know, there weren't any big diasporas of Koreans to Zhejiang and Jiangsu although there might have been ethnic Koreans in provinces such as Jilin and Liaoning but I dont think I have any roots there. The most recent large numbered diaspora of Koreans to China was in the Goryeo Dynasty..... If anyone can maybe prove that my family (on my dad's side where the roots are in Zhejiang and Jiangsu) is from maybe one of the Northern provinces which raises the plausibility of that Korean ancestor being on my dads side, it might help. Though, I do still need help with the mom's side thing in my first post if anyone is down to help. My dad's side: Farthest known ancestor: 湯洪龍 hometown: Longhua, Shanghai, Jiangsu (dads dad side) Surnames: 王 (dads moms mom side) (heard my grandmothers uncle surnamed wang was extremely wealthy back before the communists came so there may be more info on him?) hometown for that surname: 王家, 定海, 舟山, 浙江省 (may have been a family village? considering the surname was basically the village name) ......but my paternal grandmother is surnamed 吳 If anyone needs anymore information, please let me know!
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Post by mitch on Dec 29, 2020 0:58:47 GMT -5
What type of DNA test did you use? 23andme, Ancestry, My Heritage?
Edit: Another thing to mention, you're wondering about how Korean ancestry entered the family. What's also important to consider is that the Korean ancestry could be the result of adoption. Maybe ancestors of yours couldn't bare children so they adopted someone. That person could be fully Korean or partially Korean.
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tt
Member
Posts: 5
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Post by tt on Dec 29, 2020 14:18:57 GMT -5
I used Ancestry DNA! It used to be 100% Chinese but updated to 56% Southern China 40% North China and 4% Korean with the new update.
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Post by tirosen on Dec 29, 2020 15:39:54 GMT -5
Interesting. I have tested with 23andMe, Ancestry DNA, FTDNA,. Teloyears Advanced Ancestry (because they breakdown their results and not just stated 100% "Han" or "Chinese" like some companies, but gives you percentages of Dai, Miao, Tujia, She (minorities groups)-they do not have Korean results, but gave me 11% Japanese) and also done 30x Whole Genome Sequencing with Nebula Genomics. Both my parents are from Taiwan with ancestry 8-9 generations back from Zhangzhou, Fujian in China. Ancestry DNA gives me 99% Southern Chinese and 1% Northern Chinese; 23andMe gives me 98.3% Chinese (tied to Taiwan) but also to Fujan in China, etc. and 1.6% Austronesian (probably picking up proto-Austronesian ancestry from Fujian).
I do get Korean percentages when I upload my raw data to WeGene (as they are from China with more East Asian DNA samples to compare with), be it from 23andMe or Ancestry DNA. Have you uploaded to WeGene? Oddly also, when I upload both my 23andMe and Ancestry DNA raw data to 23mofang (a Chinese DNA company) they also give me some percentages of Korean. While I have uploaded my data from 23andMe and Nebula Genomics to some ancestry related apps on sequencing.com and they also give me some Korean percentages. The same goes with uploading data to MyLiving DNA which gave me some percentages of Korean. Yet, neither 23andMe or Ancestry DNA on their own results gives me Korean.
I wonder if the Korean genome can be difficult sometimes to distinguish with Northern Han or Manchurian?
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tt
Member
Posts: 5
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Post by tt on Dec 29, 2020 18:14:40 GMT -5
I feel like I would want to refrain from WeGene because yk its China and who knows if they'll steal your DNA info for other purposes. Might consider doing Teloyears Advanced Ancestry if it can break down into smaller minority groups. What results did you get for the minority groups? Just wanted to know because seems like your ancestry is the same (or almost the same) from mine. My ancestors (on the maternal side) go back 7-8 generations to Quanzhou (which i trust isnt that different from Zhangzhou) and immigrated to Taiwan in the early 1800s or late 1700s. The austronesian DNA you mentioned is highly possible because back in ancient times, Han Chinese from the North came down and intermixed with the local Austronesian group known as the Baiyue. It could also be possible that one of your ancestors married an indigenous Taiwanese man/woman (more probable is woman). So that's not surprising. mainly what I'm trying to find is a non-China based company with a solid amount of ethnic Chinese DNA that can find minorities and some research to maybe (hopefully) prove the Korean ancestor, not some far north Han Chinese dude.
It is possible that its hard to distinguish between Manchurian/Northern Han and Koreans as Koreans originally came from parts of Northern China and Manchuria thousands of years ago....I havent done too much research but I think they may have intermarried with the Khitans or Jurchens sometime in the Goryeo times possibly. At least the Northern Koreans. Just hopefully, it is a genuine Korean ancestor....ngl, would be very cool to be related to a North Korean person at some point. Anybody have any other insight or information they might contribute?
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Post by jeremychin on Dec 29, 2020 22:10:36 GMT -5
Hey guys,
So I had this conundrum years ago when I first took the 23andme test and they had me at 14% Vietnamese. Over time I had both of my parents and two of my grandparents take the test, and now I am at 0% Vietnamese. One of the reasons we may have small percentages from these different ethnicities as you mentioned, is because there is DNA from northern Chinese which may look similar to that of Koreans just like as Southern China is so close to Vietnam and at some point the areas were merged throughout history, the DNA could be genetically similar. The chance that that 4% actually ties to a recent ancestor is not very likely, and overtime as there are more northern Chinese and Koreans that enter the database, Your Korean Percentage should lower.
- Jeremy
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tt
Member
Posts: 5
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Post by tt on Dec 29, 2020 22:58:07 GMT -5
Thanks for the info! It makes sense, albeit sadly
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Post by tirosen on Dec 30, 2020 15:19:21 GMT -5
As for Teloyears Advanced Ancestry- they are obviously nowhere near as large as 23andMe or Ancestry DNA. What sets them apart is that they use Next Generation Sequencing of your DNA which is at least 428 times more in depth than genotyping which 23andMe and Ancestry DNA uses. Their sampling database is different not based on customers or other things. They compare your dna to results from the 1,000 Human Genome Diversity Project (HGDP). I have to point out they do not use cheek sample or saliva sample- they take a blood sample, which I know some people won't like that. I had my wife, who is a physician prick me. They give you the tools to do it yourself for the blood sample. You can Google that to find out about HGDP.. I will post a screenshot of my Teloyears Advanced Ancestry results. I understand your concerns about uploading any DNA data to any China based DNA companies. I know some people who are even paranoid to take any sort of DNA test period (including against taking tests with mainstream companies such as 23andMe, Ancestry DNA, FTDNA, MyHeritage, etc. as they believe their DNA sample or information will be used in adverse ways. I did also upload both my 23andMe and Ancestry DNA raw data also to 23mofang which is also a Chinese based DNA company. They give you DNA matches based on location on China. I noticed I have the most DNA matches from Quanzhou, Fujian (40 matches) compared to only 21 matches from Zhangzhou, Fujian. Thus, it makes me believe I probably also have ancestry from Quanzhou, Fujian. Very likely migrants with ancestry from Zhangzhou and Quanzhou intermixed in Taiwan even though earlier there may been rivalry and conflict. I also have lots of DNA matches from Jieyang, Shantou and Chaozhou in Guangdong Province which is typically Teochew/Chaozhou speaking (related to Minnan people). As for my Austronesian percentages from 23andMe- yes it could either by from Proto-Austronesian admixture that occurred in Fujian or could be intermarried with maybe the Plain Aborigines (Pingpu) of Western Taiwan (most intermarriages between Taiwanese Han and the aborigines were with the Plains Aborigines (Pingpu) early on as most of the early migrants to Taiwan were single males from Fujian and northeastern Guangdong. On the chromosome picture on 23andMe it shows some Austronesian admixture on the X Chromosome as well as other Chromosomes. The X Chromosome is inherited from your mother. Thus, I know the Austroneisan admixture could have come from my mother's side of the family at the very least. Based on the 1.6%, 23andMe predicted if I had a 100% Austronesian ancestor they would have mixed in 5-8 generations back and estimated that timeframe between 1760 to 1820. That timeframe is exactly around the time my 5x greatgrandfather moved to Taiwan from Zhangzhou, Fujian. Interestingly enough. There is a recent article from November 2020 study Austronesian admixtures in Taiwanese Han. It does indicate most Taiwanese Han particularly does who are Hoklo/Hokkien/Minnan and Hakka have some degree of Austronesian admixture in their DNA. The article was trying to explore whether Austronesian admixture occurred while they were still in Fujian and Guangdong or whether iit occurred after they moved to Taiwan (e.g., admixture with Taiwanese aborigines), They actually found largely many of the Austronesian admixture occurred while they were still in Fujian/Guangdong because they found the same amount of admixture in the Minnan in Fujian and Hakka in Guangdong as in Taiwan. But, they did not automatically dismissed the possibility that there are people with Taiwanese aborigines admixture also. Here is the link to that article also note the supplemental materials with the charts- they put links to those as well: academic.oup.com/mbe/advance-article/doi/10.1093/molbev/msaa276/5955855But as for you having 4% Korean ancestry, that is hard to guess on what database that Ancestry DNA is making that determination and if it is reliable. I know in 23andMe there used to be people who are Korean getting high percentage of Chinese percentage despite them not having any known recent ancestry from China. But, 23andMe improved their algorithm and database, now their results are showing as 100% Korean instead. I wonder if Ancestry DNA is running to a problem with still having some difficulty in distinguishing Koreans from people in Northern China- particularly Manchurian. I know one lady on the 23andMe forum puts up links about migrations of Koreans also into China in the past 500 to 1,000 years. She does not like it when discount the possibility of Korean admixture in some Chinese (as you recall I get Korean percentages when I upload data to 23mofang, WeGene, MyLiving DNA, Sequencing)- when I explain it could be similarity of ancestry/common ancestry rather than admixture. She does not want me to rule out admixture. I could provide you the links if find them or quote her.
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Post by tirosen on Jan 2, 2021 11:25:58 GMT -5
I also forgot to add, try uploading your data to GedMatch. There are many different DNA calculators there.
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