Zhongshan genealogy questions

[wonton888]

Hello y'all,

I recently took an Ancestry dna test, and I recently found out a unknown half second cousin that my father was unaware of who have Chinese Hawaiian connections.  I suspect my great-grandfather had a family in Hawaii and in Zhongshan (this would be my grandfather's family before he left for Peru) because I match to a ton of Hawaiian Chinese descendants.  I also matched to a Bo Gay Tong Salavador of Chinese Historical society of Southern California who is of Zhongshan origin from Tangjiawan village (they are related to Tang Shaoyi of the KMT era).  Most of tombstones from findmygrave.com in the bay area, sacramento/stockton, hawaii who hail from Zhongshan are Longdu and See Dai Doo (Nanlang) regions.  This is an important fact, because I match to Longdu relatives in Nor. Cal. and my grandfather's sister family is surname Miu (缪) from this region but their family ONLY spoke Shekki dialect (maybe because they lived in the city center at that time).  

Anyone familiar with Chinese Hawaiian history?  Most Wong/Wang (王) from Zhongshan are from Poonsha, Wong Uk village of the Nanlang region that migrated to Hawaii.  My great-grandfather was a sailor in the late 1890s.  I would like to message someone from this forum familiar with Zhongshan history.

-Adam Won

[gckimm]

Hi Adam:

Many Zhongshan people migrated to Hawaii. In fact, as Douglas Chong says in his excellent article linked below, Hawaii may have had at one time the largest population of Zhongshanese people outside of China.

Chong's article, originally published by the Chinese Historical Society of America (based in San Francisco), focuses on the history of Hawaii residents from Nanlang:
www.chsa.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/CHSA_HP2010_02_Chong.pdf

My own DNA test also matches many people with apparent Hawaiian roots. I suspect that they are related to me through my great-grandmother, who was a Chock 卓 from Koon Tong/Guantang Village in Tong Gah Wan/Tangjiawan Town 唐家湾镇官塘村. Many Chock descendants remain in the islands.

I wish you success in learning more about your ancestors.

Greg

[trevor]

Hi Adam,

I'm familiar with Hawaii Chinese history and Zhongshan/Zhuhai history. Bo-Gay is a relative of mine, though I have not met her nor have I spoken to her. We descend from the same Tong clan.

Greg,

We are related to each other through the Chocks of Goon Tong.


Trevor

[wonton888]

Hi Trevor,

Yes, I believe most Wong/Wangs of Zhongshan origin are from Nanlang in Hawaii.  And I recently found out that I have a second half cousin or third cousin who have connections to Hawaii and have the same Wong/Wang surname.  In California, most are Longdu origin and I also have that origin as well. I have inputted my raw DNA data into 23mofang and other than Guangdong matches I also match to Putian, Fujian people as well. My great grandfather was a merchant sailor in the late 1800s and most likely had a second family in Hawaii that my father's family from Peru and California had no idea about.  Lu Haodong's (KMT era) mother was a Wang/Wong of Wong Uk/ Pansha Nanlang Zhongshan.  I noticed a lot of See Dai Doo (Nanlang) tombstones in Hawaii in findmygrave.com than other parts of Zhongshan with a significant number of Longdu as well in the early era late 19th to early 20th century. My question is most Zhongshan migrants to Hawaii are from Nanlang, Longdu, Shekki? My Zhongshan family only spoke Shekki Cantonese but they lived in the city center before migrating overseas.  

--Adam Won

[trevor]

Adam,

I know of one Wong/Wang 王 in Hawaii from Pansha or Poon Sa 泮沙村.  His name was Wong Lo Yau or Aloiau 王羅有.  I couldn't find any Wangs because most of the Wongs are Huangs (黃).


To answer your question:
My question is are most Zhongshan migrants to Hawaii are from Nanlang, Longdu, Shekki?

I think that they were an amalgamation of all parts of Zhongshan and Zhuhai.  Some areas had more migrants than others, probably based on how far word of mouth news was able to travel.  I don't that there is a way to quantify, who came from what area unless you ask every family, but from my research, I saw that many of the migrants were from Sanxiang 三乡镇 and Tangjiawan 唐家湾镇.  

[wonton888]

Trevor,

Are you related to Tang Shaoyi (KMT era) who ancestral home is Tangjiawan near Zhuhai? I may have to contact the Aloiau family in Hawaii to find about my Hawaiian connections.  

-Adam

[wonton888]

gckimm

I am related to an alchock17 (Al Keali'i Chock) on Ancestry with connections to Hawaii.  These connections and genetic cluster are getting really interesting.

--Adam 

[trevor]

Adam,

Yes, I am related to Tang Shaoyi, but from what I can trace as of right now, very distantly.  I'm not sure if you should or shouldn't contact the Aloiau family.  There are members of that family on familysearch.com.

[gckimm]

Hi Adam and Trevor:

My great-grandmother's name was Chock Gum Yip 卓金葉 (1867-1916). She ended up in San Francisco, not Hawaii, married a Sue 蘇 and had children, survived the great earthquake and fire of 1906 and then moved to California's Central Valley, specifically Fresno. Unfortunately, I have not been able to find any of her ancestors because I do not know the names of any of her male relations and, as you may know, Chinese genealogies do not contain much information about females.

Elsewhere on this forum I have mentioned that Susan Salgy and Russell Chang have both done research about Koon Tong Village and the Chock clan. Perhaps you can connect with them to find out more about your ancestors. Russell also has quite a bit of information online at russellchang.com.

Greg

[wonton888]

Thank you everyone, I amazed by these genetic clusters and family connections.  

[wonton888]

I did contact Douglas D.L. Chong who wrote the academic paper on "Hawai‘i’s Nam Long

Their Background and Identity as a Zhongshan Subgroup" he contacted after going through surgery not to long ago.  
So he told me that most of Hawaii's early Chinese immigrants (including Dr. Sun's Cuiheng Nanlang origin) before WWII were from Nanlang.  This historically significant, because a lot early KMT officials connected some way to Dr. Sun Yat-sen have origins there such as Tang Shao-yi of Tangjiawan village.  Nanlang and Longdu dialects are mutually intelligible about 70% from my research, but I know that some of Ancestry DNA matches have connections to both Longdu and Nanlang (esp. Tangjiawan and Pansha).  I still have relatives in Zhongshan (Heongshan) and I have visited the area.  They were quite elusive to me in getting my Jiapus or when I asked to visit my great-grandmother/great-grandfather tombstones.  I do speak some Mandarin and Cantonese because my mother is from Hong Kong and I was exposed to it growing up.  Oddly, my great-aunt, great-uncle, and my grandfather never mentioned to their families their older brother's family back in China.  Even more suspiring, I have a third cousin with connections to Hawaii with the same Chinese surname with myself.  

I guess my next step, is finding out if my great-aunt had an arranged marriage to husband (his surname is Miu which is mostly found in Shaxi, Zhongshan) and from there finding out their home villages because more often than not it was a nearby village.  My grandfather lived in the city center Shiqi before migrating to Peru from what my relatives told me.

--Adam Won

[trevor]

Uncle Doug went through surgery?  I should call him to see how he's doing.