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Post by kerry on Dec 28, 2007 22:34:05 GMT -5
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Post by helen on Dec 29, 2007 4:30:13 GMT -5
A great job done Kerry - amazing that you have been able to reach so far back to your tree. The NZ Wong villagers from Zengcheng Province, is working on about 500 years history - we have the first 17 generations - but missing 2 generations; the village is currently up to its 25-27 generations.
Congratulations for your great work.
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Post by Henry on Dec 29, 2007 7:20:58 GMT -5
Hi Kerry, Congratulations on your research and documentation of your family tree - you have done a great job of including very nice photos of people, gravestones, etc. I commend you on your application of the PhpGedView software to document your ancestry! I and probably other Chinese genealogy researchers, are interested in how well Chinese ancestral lineages can be incorporated into the existing set of genealogy software and the extent to which these lineages can be displayed in the various "standard" genealogical charts and if possible - in some of the traditional Chinese forms for presenting Chinese lineages. Another key concerns is the ability of genealogical software to support the names in Chinese characters. As you are probably well aware of the constant confusion caused by the various romanization systems for the Chinese language - which ultimately requires the Chinese characters to clarify. I noticed that you include the Chinese names in your application as an image, however, in the "Note" - it looks like the PhpGedView software does support the recording of Chinese characters - does it also support the searching by Chinese characters? The ability to be able to search on Chinese characters is important - as being recognized by major genealogy research organizations: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) [ www.familysearch.org/] on-line library catalog supports searching by Chinese characters. I believe support for Chinese characters is also included in their free genealogical software "Personal Ancestral File" (PAL). Do you know if the Mormon church will also extend this support for Chinese characters in their GEDCOM (de facto standard for moving genealogical files between genealogical software) and to their International Genealogical Index? Especially if they intend to add names from China to this Index - currently comprised of names from the US, Canada, and Europe. I suspect there will be more support for Chinese characters as the Mormon Church is a major partner with the Shanghai Library, which holds the largest collection of Chinese genealogical books in China. The Shanghai Library is supposed to have their on-line catalog completed by the end of this month. I believe computer software, as well as genetic genealogy, are becoming significant aspects in the fusion of traditional Chinese genealogy with the heritage / lineage of overseas Chinese. I, for one, would love to learn more. I hope our webmaster Kevin Lee will institute a new section of the Forum on software for Chinese genealogy and I hope you will serve as its moderator ! I look forward to it. Henry Tom
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Post by kerry on Jan 1, 2008 20:28:21 GMT -5
While we're here, I'll note that phpGedView is server based software - it's meant to run from a webserver. It's free software but assumes a moderate level of knowledge about web technology.
Warning - technical speak follows in response to Henry's questions. The short answer is "good enough for me..."
phpGedView has some support for Chinese characters. The user interface is a web browser so provided you have a reasonably modern browser you will have UTF-8 support so getting Chinese characters into the file is no problem. (Earlier programs I played with couldn't display UTF-8 so I dropped them.)
GEDCOM doesn't specifically support some of the things we would like to have but does allow for "extensions". phpGedView has defined an extension tag called _HEB for storing the name of a place or person in "traditional" characters. The field is labelled "Hebrew" but it can be used for the Chinese characters of a name. phpGedView does not break this up into Surname & personal/first name components.
There isn't much functionality around the _HEB tagged field other than being displayed. For instance, there are lists that show place names in a heirarchy (Country, State etc) but this is all based on the English text in the PLAC field. Same for some of the structured lists around names - they don't work off the _HEB data.
One aspect where Chinese characters don't work is with the pdf generated reports. The open source module which generates the pdf version of a file doesn't know about Chinese fonts so will display gibberish. Known problem but outside of phpGedView problem domain. (They reuse another open source module to do the pdf thing and it doesn't have the Chinese character support).
On the question of search support, there are two levels to answer on - within the site itself or from the broader internet (eg Google).
Searching for Chinese characters within the site depends on the capability of the database running on the server where phpGedView is hosted. This is supported on the system I use (which uses MySQL). There is capacity to search for records that have Chinese characters in them although the search result lists don't necessarily show the field that the match occurred in.
Searching for Chinese characters from Google is supported although I'm still tinkering to get the right data indexed. (I've got hit's on my place name fields but not my person name fields. Yet.)
Will GEDCOM be updated? No idea myself but discussion on the forum that supports phpGedView didn't seem optimistic about change any time soon in a number of areas.
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Post by geoff on Jan 4, 2008 15:23:17 GMT -5
Hello Kerry,
Thank you for sharing your use of "phpGedView" software. I understand the meaning behind your title "Damper in a Wok"as I'm also Australian born Chinese. I have been asking around & searching for software for my family history. I'm still in the research stage but in a year or two, will start to compile my research. I'll have a closer look at how to use "phpGedView".
Geoff
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Post by fungfamilysearch on Jan 11, 2008 1:54:09 GMT -5
The older version of FTM ( Family Tree Maker ) software did not support Chinese characters. Several weeks ago I received the latest, Family Tree Maker 2008. I typed the Chinese names in English. Then I had a microsoft word file with the names in Chinese script. I was able to copy and past the Chinese into the new software and have both English and Chinese which prints out okay and I can see in the Genealogical Report. I don't know if they, Family Tree Maker has Chinese search capability but if someone is really interested I think they could ask and also if there was enough interest I think they would try to work it into their software if it doesn't already exist.
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Post by kerry on Jan 11, 2008 21:52:49 GMT -5
One of the issues I'm investigating right now is the to with splitting of names into a surname and first name. Seems innocuous at first but it does create problems when the formatting logic of the program starts trying to work out where the family name is in a string of Chinese characters.
Here's a question to the Chinese reading part of the board. We'd recognise "Hillary Clinton" and "Clinton, Hillary" as being equivalent. Does reformatting a Chinese name in this way produce something that native Chinese readers would recognize?
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Post by Henry on Feb 17, 2008 10:07:37 GMT -5
Fellow colleagues, I did some checking and would like to share the following information I received about the use of the "Personal Ancestry File (PAF) 5.2 " software pertaining to the input, search, display and printing of Chinese characters. Personal Ancestry File 5.2 Personal Ancestral File (PAF) is a free genealogy and family history program. PAF allows you to quickly and easily collect, organize and share your family history and genealogy information. Free download from: www.familysearch.org/According to: Support@FamilySearch.org The input, display, and printing of Chinese characters: In order to input, display and print a Chinese PAF records, you may follow the steps below in order to input, display and print a Chinese PAF records: Insert your PAF 5.2 disc, the first screen shows up is "Choose Setup Language" screen, select "Chinese (Taiwan)", Click "OK", On the "Installshield Wizard" screen, click "下一步 (N)" On the next screen, check the fifth one "中文檔" (Chinese), make sure the the first one "英文檔 (English) is checked also, Then click "下一步 (N)" On the next screen, click "下一步 (N)" , a "read me" screen will show up, exit it, then click "完成" (Finish), a Chinese PAF icon will appear in your computer. Next time when you go into the Chinese PAF icon, you should be able to choose both English and 中文 (Chinese). Searching with Chinese characters: Yes, you can use Chinese surname (in Chinese character) to search. In "Individual" category, type in Chinese surname, the list of names with that surname will show up. If anybody is able to provide us with an assessment on the Chinese character capabilities of PAF 5.2 - I would be interested. I am looking for a reliable genealogy software program that has such capabilites and supports the "GEDCOM" standard for interchanging genealogy files between genealogy software packages. Henry
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Post by kerry on May 29, 2008 7:07:13 GMT -5
If anybody's interested - I've been fiddling a bit with the Chinese character names on the Choy side of the family. The links referenced earlier are still good. Look's closer to what we need but it's still a little awkward to set up..
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Post by Doug 周 on Dec 10, 2008 1:05:05 GMT -5
Sorry to reopen this older thread, but I wanted to share my experience with www.dynastree.com, an English languaged web based family tree program which allows Chinese Characters. The reason I found this thread is that I also use PhpGedView to review the back-up's of my files from Dynastree. Much like Kerry's Family Tree, I have a mixture of relatives with different heritages in 3-4 different continents, with about as many individuals. I found the web site is easy for people to participate. As we can attest, participation is key to genealogy and the internet helps diminish the distances involved. Let me know if anyone is interested my experience with this web site. I have no financial interest with Dynastree.com
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Post by Ah Gin on Dec 11, 2008 23:12:34 GMT -5
Joeysum,
I am interested in your experience re dynastree, and in fact other similar free software that can handle Chinese names and of course English. Like yourself and Kerry, I have relatives spread across the 7 seas, and the web is by far the best way to engage them, A simple software will certainly help as I am in the process of maintaining my family Jiapu.
Regards, Ah Gin
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Post by Doug 周 on Dec 12, 2008 1:48:22 GMT -5
Dear Ah Gin, The site url is www.dynastree.com. The two main reasons I use this site is because of the ability to display Chinese characters (it supports unicode) and the ability to back up the file onto your computer (GEDCOM) I have experimented with Geni.com and Myheritage.com. Geni.com is USA based and MyHeritage.com is Israeli. Dynastree is German. Whereas MyHeritage.com supports more languages (especially Chinese), neither Geni.com nor Myheritage.com fully backs up all the data displayed. The programming with Dynastree is more precise and I run into less bugs. Backing up your data is vital. Who knows when the next dot.com crash will occur and if the site goes bankrupt. I have over 1400 people and could not reproduce this data by hand. A great feature is that Dynastree incorporates Google Maps. You can see what part of what country that your relative is located. Even more fun are the photographs. All three programs above allow 'tagging'. This means that you can label individuals in group photos. Since photographs are so important, I now replace portraits of deceased relatives with photos (if available) when they were in the prime of their lives (usually when they got married). I find that the younger relatives enjoy seeing these youthful pictures of deceased loved ones. Unfortunately, no on line genealogy site will back up the photographs easily. However, let me know when you are at that stage and I will share hints to save your photographs with as few clicks as possible. The Chinese characters input is difficult unless you have a program. I use www.chinese-tools.com/tools/mouse.html. However, this web based program works best if you have some training in calligraphy. Being American born, I have my wife do the calligraphy. Hope you find the program as useful as I have. It has helped me to get in touch with relatives in China, Australia, and UK. Doug
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Post by Woodson on Dec 12, 2008 17:39:41 GMT -5
Hi Doug,
As we go back further in our line information on the spouse becomes scarce. Eventually all we have is the surname. Thus end up with a fair number of, let say, Chan Shi. Many insist on a unique name. How well does Dynastree handled this multiple duplications?
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Post by Ah Gin on Dec 12, 2008 18:30:21 GMT -5
Doug,
Many thanks for tips. I am at the data gathering and varification stage. Have started to document at a "Family Unit" basis, i.e. father-son pair, using MS Word. I know, it's clumsy, but I am trying to get the thing going first, and have something almost similar in style to our Jiapu. Our Jiapu usually displays 2 to 5 generations per page, depending on the size of the family. And then there are footnotes. I am aiming to have something as close to the village-house-Jiapu style, so that when the Editorial Committee restarts their work, it will be a simple process of them slotting in my work (which I hasten to add is build upon my father's work, and him on his grandfather's work). My "constituents" have already expressed their desire to see photos as well. Your advice is great -- whilst the traditional portraits of our ancestors will be featured, if we can, we will slot in "life and time" of our ancestors. Fact of the matter is we do not have much photos going back ggf's time. Maps, down to village and property level will be included as well. Like some of you, such as Phillip, I am very fortunate to have a great deal of data on a plate. Thing is, I sense that our ancestors are helping. At the right moment, people, faces, information seems to pop up. I am very grateful for that.
When I am ready and after I have had the time to test out the freebie, I will have to contact you again. Who knows, we may have the chance of a face-to-face discussion at our Asssociation (Gin Family Beneveloent Association, 747 Clay Street, San Francisco) if the stars are all lined up.
Regards, Ah Gin
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Post by Doug 周 on Dec 12, 2008 19:57:12 GMT -5
Dear Woodson, It handles duplicates fine. You are correct, at times all I have also is just a surname. I used to make up a fake Given name (like Y1, Y2, etc) but as the tree gets larger, you get too many duplicate first and last names. I don't do that anymore since I merely flip to a tree view and I can find out where I am on the family tree. Also, the program knows where you are in the family tree and writes out how you are related to that person's profile you are viewing. Here are a couple of screen prints. Resolution may be an issue but hope this helps. I hope I followed the instructions on the forum correctly: (modified 2009 after I learned how to embed photos) Doug
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