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Post by danmagee on Jan 20, 2007 14:53:26 GMT -5
Hi I recently had part of an old letter translated whilst trying to find out where my Grandfather came from (family name ma/mah). Apparently an address : YAN CHUNG CITY SANG JIA COMMUNE NUMBER 3 TEAM NEW MANUFACTURE TEAM
and two names are written on there : ma young sheng, ma yu seng.
I don't have any chinese family left, neither do I speak Chinese. If anyone has any info to where the city or how the address and names work, please let me know. My mothers anglified maiden name is Mahwing, which I assume is my Grandfather's chinese surname and at least part of his other name. Maybe someone could explain how Mahwing relates to the other two names on the letter. thanks Dan
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Post by Woodson on Jan 20, 2007 20:25:27 GMT -5
I see you have the names and address written in Chinese. Why don't you scan it and post that instead of the phonetic English version?
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Post by danmagee on Jan 21, 2007 6:08:26 GMT -5
Ok, Sure! Ok, I don't know who wrote the English words on here or if they are relevant to the actual chinese on here. If anyone knows what the English words are too, let me know. I know Kwangtung and Taishan are cities and provinces, but I couldn't find anything on Pai Shan and Ho Ho Li. I'm after any information that could be helpful at all : links to maps where the addresses might be, how the commune system works or how I could find commune records. Even how family names are related. All help is appreciated. Rest of the letter : Back of photo : And finally the photo itself, for those that are interested.
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Post by Woodson on Jan 21, 2007 18:19:42 GMT -5
From what I can gathered your grandfather's village is located in the Baisha area of Taishan county. Majority of the Ma's from Taishan live there. Located it on the database web site: www.c-c-c.org/villagedb/display.cgi?level=Village&id=3778Baisha is northwest of Taishan City. Please see map: The Yangchun address indicates it is a product of the commune era. I would hazard a guess that this person and his family were moved to or resettled at Yangchun county. The following map should give you an idea of Yangchun's location in relation to Hong Kong and Taishan. This map gives the location of Sanjia. Sorry it isn't detail enough to show the village but gives you an idea of the general location. Sanjia looks to be a major centre so you shouldn't have any difficulty if you plan to visit.
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Post by danmagee on Jan 21, 2007 19:12:13 GMT -5
Thank you so much for your help. I have a couple more questions if that's ok. You say my Grandfather's Ancestral village may be Mong Lau Kong. Is there some information in the writings above that indicate this, or is this from past research of the Mah family? I have no idea what any of the writings say, except for the a couple of the english names, obviously Taishan and Kwangtung. Are Ho Ho Li and Pai Sha places too? My grandfather emigrated to Jamaica, so we are not sure how this letter came to be (maybe he brought it with him form china, or maybe it was posted to him or a relative).
Is there just the one address indicated in the writings? (the commune one in sanjia) or is there another one indicating Baisha?
So far yourself and two other people have looked at this and they mention different things. The first person that looked at it was a friend I met in Shenzen, he mailed me the commune address. The second is a chinese girl, here in England and she told me some different/additional information :
(i had a look at Dan's stuff, they are all addresses. there are 2 different names and addresses on them (one is just a repeat). non of them are letters. Both places are in a county called Toi-San in Guangdong(Canton) Provence. Not far from Hong Kong appx 3-4hrs train. they speak a dialect called Toi-San which is very similar to Cantonese. (the written language is Chinese regardless of the spoken dialect). 'Ma' is the surname Wing-Sun is one of the person's name. 'Yung-Shen' is the mandarin pronunciation of the same words because in mainland china all names use the mandarin pronunciation when written in alphabets. the other person's name is Ma Yu-Sun. hope this helps.)
Sorry for asking so many questions, but I would very much like to visit and before I go off hunting for an ancestral village, it's best i get my facts straight! If there is a second address different to the Sanjia one, please could you post the translation or english pronouciation.
thanks again.
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Post by Woodson on Jan 22, 2007 1:17:44 GMT -5
Dan, I apologize for being too hast and brief in my reply. Due to phonetic reasons Chinese names or characters could have many spelling in English. Toi-San, Taishan, and Hoisun all refer to the same county in Guangdong (Kwangtung). In Chinese writing Pai Sha and Baisha are one and the same. It is the name of a town and also a district in Taishan. Ho Ho Li is one of the villages close to Town of Baisha and inside Baisha district. The capital of Guangdong is Guangzhou which was previously known as Canton. Some people had erroneously used it as the name of the province. The following and those on the back of the photos are the same addess. All pertain to Sanjia, Yanchun. The address in pinyin: Guangdong Yangchun Sanjia Commune Sanwei Team Xinjian Production Unit Ma Ru Xin The names of the teams and production units,as a rule, were based upon the villages of the workers. So I suspect Sanwei and Xinjian may be villages. Very likely he was staying in Xinjian. www3.telus.net/arts/wunhu/ma address sanjia01.jpg[/img] The following jpg is the Baisha, Taishan address. Reading from top to bottom, right to left: in Taishanese: Guongdong Hoisan Baisa Mong Lau Kong aka Hop Wor Lai name: Ma Guon aka Ma Wing Sim in Cantonese: Kwangtung Toisan Baisa Mong Lau Gong aka Hup Wor Lai name: Ma Guon aka Ma Wing Sum in pinyin: Guangdong Taisahan Baisha Wang Lou Cun aka He He Li name Ma Ang aka Ma Rong Chen www3.telus.net/arts/wunhu/ma address.jpg[/img] Now we have two name: Ma Rong Chen with the Taishan address and Ma Ru Xin with the Yangchun address. There is a brief note on the back of the family photo which I think says `most likely Ma`s son`. He could be a brother, cousin or nephew, even. www3.telus.net/arts/wunhu/ma note.jpg[/img] The two names of the village in Taishan are: www3.telus.net/arts/wunhu/ma chinese.jpg[/img]
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Post by danmagee on Jan 23, 2007 19:39:06 GMT -5
I've just been checking the updated edit of your answers. Thanks very much. Apparently someone is contacting me regarding a previous investigation of the Mah Family ancestral village so I'll try and keep you updated on this thread.
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Post by danmagee on Jan 26, 2007 17:57:42 GMT -5
Hi again, I have another part of a letter. Since you've been so helpful, could I bother you for a translation of this name and address? It may just be a repeat. I tried to look for matching characters, but to my untrained eye I can't pick anything out. I've just noticed there is a from and to name also. Getting a translation of both would help. Thanks again. Dan
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Post by Woodson on Jan 28, 2007 14:50:15 GMT -5
This is the Yangchun address. It is the same as the previous ones but without references to commune, team and production unit. So I guess it is more recent. Also the name of the recipient is different. It is a Mr. Lau or Liu (pinyin). This is getting interesting. Wonder what happened to Ma Ru Xin and his family. In your possession do you any letters from them?
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Post by danmagee on Jan 28, 2007 17:25:07 GMT -5
This is the Yangchun address. It is the same as the previous ones but without references to commune, team and production unit. So I guess it is more recent. Also the name of the recipient is different. It is a Mr. Lau or Liu (pinyin). This is getting interesting. Wonder what happened to Ma Ru Xin and his family. In your possession do you any letters from them? I just made contact with my grandfather's son's son. So a recently rediscovered cousin I guess. His father came from China with my grandfather, but like myself he does not speak or read chinese. He has forwarded me the envelope I just posted and also another letter that is from china, but written in english. I am not sure at all of the relevance of the new letter or the envelope. The relation I am now in contact with has told me that whenever a new family member was born his father would send a letter home to record it. He also gave me a list of names his father wrote out for him. The top row is my great grand father, then my grandfather's name. Followed by his father's name which is now their surname "Mahlee" The second row is how to say their current family names in chinese. I can't really make out the first name in romanized form, my great grand father. Is it Mah Chit Lim? Here's the parts of the english letter with the private stuff cut out. The top bit is just a header I presume, the second one is the signature..can't quite make it out, but maybe it says cousin liu? Is it possible to have a cousin with a different name? Also, you mention the recipient on the new letter is Liu, but who is the sender...see top left of the envelope. Thanks again!
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Post by Woodson on Jan 29, 2007 2:05:42 GMT -5
Also, you mention the recipient on the new letter is Liu, but who is the sender...see top left of the envelope. Thanks again! Unless my eyesight is really, really bad the top left corner of the envelope is empty. There is nothing there other than the printed word "From" in two languages. I suspect this envelope was sent with a letter from the recipient, the Liu person. In his letter he signed as a cousin. Since his is a Liu not a Ma then his mother would be a daughter of Ma Ru Xin? Why don't you write him since he or at least somebody in the village understands English?
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Post by mailon on Jun 14, 2020 11:41:38 GMT -5
Hello my name is Cyndie Soo.
I'm looking for my grandfather's jiapu. He came from Guangdong, Jiangmen, Taishan, BaiSha Zhen, Jing Tou, No Tau (or Brainhead) village. I understand the village may have merged into other villages.
My grandfather's name was Ma Long Xi in the village. Outside the village he was known as Ma Fu Fang. I believe he had 10 brothers and one sister. My grandfather was number 5. His seventh brother was a twin with his sister.
Grandfather immigrated to Mexico, and his Mexican name was Luis Mafong. I know two other brother's name - Mariano Ma lived in Mexico and Frank Mah Sing lived in Salem Massachusetts. Another brother lived in Stockton and Santa Barbara.
馬 龍 喜Ma Long Xi or Ma Happy Dragon. 馬福 芳 Ma Fu Fang
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Post by gckimm on Jun 20, 2020 10:48:17 GMT -5
Hi Cyndie: From my internet research,it looks like No Tau (Mandarin: Naotou) Village 腦頭村 is still around. It must be a very small village, as it is now under the authority of a larger village called Gong Tau/Jiangtou) 江頭村. Gong Tau is part of Bok Sah/Baisha Town 白沙鎮 in Toishan/Taishan City 台山市. There are many members of the Ma clan in Baisha. On the website of the Taishan City government, someone a few year ago posted a history of the Ma clan which includes the names of ancestors in Taishan (including Baisha) from generations 1 through 9. While this page is not a jiapu, it gives you someplace to start: www.cnts.gov.cn/tssrmzf/zjts/lswh/xsyl/tsxs/content/post_727544.htmlOf course, it is in Chinese, so if you would like some help, please ask. I also found on another page a photo of the Ma ancestral temple in No Tau. This must be the temple dedicated to your ancestors. I think in order to find your jiapu, you or someone else may have to go to the village and retrieve it. Greg
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Post by Henry on Jun 20, 2020 21:42:07 GMT -5
Hi Cyndie, Here is a link to the location of Gong Tau village / Jiang Tou Cun: www.google.com/maps/place/Jiangtoucun,+Taishan,+Guangdong,+Jiangmen,+Guangdong+Province,+China/@22.2611424,112.6066828,15z /data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x36aa082917f12845:0x731b8decc2e70213!8m2!3d22.261143!4d112.615459?hl=en As Greg mentioned, Gong Tau / Jiang Tou Cun administers the ancestral village of No Tau village / Nao Tou Cun : Your Ma village genealogy book, containing your grandfather's name & lineage can probably be found in your Nao Tou Cun or in the Ma ancestral temple in Nao Tou Cum. Henry
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Post by mailon on Jun 25, 2020 11:20:48 GMT -5
Thank you Greg. I will use Google translate the site. Could I send you my document to see if you can improve the translation? You can contact me (Cyndie) at csoo@att.net I also came across this site that talks about the Mas in Bai Sha. There's a photo of a jiapu in the site. i would love to contact someone from there. wemp.app/posts/376eb66b-a943-4267-ad44-068f020bb76d?utm_source=latest-posts
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