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Post by mailon on Jun 25, 2020 11:21:44 GMT -5
Thanks Henry. You are always a big help! I will save all this information in my collection.
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Post by mailon on Jun 29, 2020 17:37:14 GMT -5
Greg, Could you please send me a link to the Ma Ancestral temple.
Thank you.
Cyndie
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Post by gckimm on Jul 2, 2020 10:55:42 GMT -5
Hi Cyndie: Here is the link to the article that contains the photo of the ancestral temple: www.tsbtv.tv/wenhua/folder27/2019-12-17/67433.htmlIt is about Chinese calligraphy done by a scholar with the surname Ha, who wrote the characters above the entrance to various Ma clan temples in Bok Sah. The temple in No Tau is called the "Do Lan Ma Gung Chee" 道瀾馬公祠 or, as I would translate it, the Ma Do Lan Ancestral Temple. Village ancestral temples are usually named after the ancestor whose branch of the family moved to that village. In the case of No Tau, that ancestor appears to be Ma Do Lan. Note that the temple name refers to him in the traditional formal way, with the personal name followed by the surname and the use of the term of respect 公. This way of referring to male ancestors can still be seen on modern grave markers. Greg
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Post by mailon on Jul 3, 2020 13:36:40 GMT -5
Much appreciated. I'll try to see if I can get more info on the ancestral temple.
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Post by mailon on Apr 15, 2021 22:46:02 GMT -5
Hi Greg,
Awhile ago, you helped me find a link to the Mas in the Baisha area that gives the generations 1 - 9. I tried to use google translate, but I got so confused.
This is what I translated. Is this correct?
# 1- Zhibei Lingnan Kai (first residence in Jinhui Street, Xinhui City)
#2 - Guoguo lived in Jinzi Street, Xinhui City
#3 - ?
#4 - Shao Long
#5 - Liangbi (moved to the East Pavilion of Xinhui from Jinzi Street of Xinhui City)
#6 - Xing Xun (moved from Dongting in Xinhui to Jianglian Chaolian Xialang Mayuan)
#7 - Zong Xun
# 8 Kangding (moved from Jiangmen Xialang Mayuan to Baisha Madong in Taishan)
# 9 Di Juyao Tian
Thank you for any help you can provide.
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Post by gckimm on May 8, 2021 10:58:29 GMT -5
Hi Cyndie:
Sorry it has taken so long to reply to your message. Somehow, I missed seeing it.
I found the webpage again and will try to clarify the information about your ancestors.
Greg
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Post by gckimm on May 8, 2021 19:00:53 GMT -5
Hi Cyndie:
I was finally able to make sense of that information on the website. I had to read the text above in order to figure out the relationships, which were very confusing. I recommend transferring the information onto a piece of paper where you can draw lines to show how people are connected. That was what I had to do. Also, a big problem was that the characters on the website list were misaligned. There were a couple of errors, as well.
My translation of the ten generation list of ancestors is below. Explanatory information is in brackets.
Greg
1. Zhibei 直北– the one who started the lineage in Lingnan [ancient name for Guangdong and Guangxi Provinces], the first person to live on Jinzi Street, Xinhui City
2. Chiguo 持國– lived on Jinzi Street, Xinhui City
3. Xiji 晞驥
4. Shaolong 紹龍
5. Liangbi 良弼– moved from Jinzi Street, Xinhui City, to Dongting Village, Xinhui
6. Xingxun 行遜– moved from Dongting Village, Xinhui, to Mayuan [Street], Xialang [Village?], Chaolian (潮連 not潮蓮) [Subdistrict], Jiangmen [City]
7. (1) Zongshan 宗善 (2) Xunshan 循善
8. (1) Kangding 康定 (2) Kangping 康平 [sons of Xunshan] – Kangping moved from Mayuan, Xialang, Jiangmen, to Madong [Village], Baisha [Town], Taishan [County]; Kangding moved from Mayuan, Xialang, Jiangmen to Haochong [not sure what this is], Hengshan [Village], Taishan.
9. (1) Dizuo 帝佐 (2) Junzuo 君佐 [note character should be 君 not 居] (3) Yaozuo 堯佐 [three sons of Kangding] and Tianbo 田波 [adopted son of Kangping, who had no sons of his own]
10. (1) Yuyin 漁隱 (2) Qiaoyin 樵隱 (3) Gengyin 耕隱 (4) Muyin 牧隱 (5) Lianyin 煉隱 (6) Zhiyin 植隱 [the six sons of Tianbo]
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Post by mailon on Feb 5, 2022 11:57:29 GMT -5
Greg, Thank you for the hard work translating the generations for me. I will keep and share this with other Mas. Cyndie
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Post by mailon on Feb 5, 2022 17:57:53 GMT -5
This is the Ma - Dao lan family tree branch. Is there anybody that can help me decipher this highlighted area into English for me?
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Post by mailon on Feb 6, 2022 15:51:24 GMT -5
Hi All, Here is a link to the Ma family tree: www.tsinfo.com.cn/.../tais/2013/0119/18495.html... Apparently, below is the English translation. This is very difficult to understand. Around the ninth line, it starts talking about a "third prefect" and prefectures. What does all that mean? The names don't seem to match with previous ancestors. If you could help me clarify what is happening in line 9-11, I would appreciate it. Ma Shi Column: Origin of Taishan surname Author: Release time: 2013/01/19 10:45 The Ma family has inherited from the Zhao family. During the Warring States Period, Zhao She was given the title of Ma Fujun by King Wuling of Zhao (one said King Huiwen of Zhao) because of his illustrious military exploits. Since then, the surname of Ma has appeared in the big family of the Chinese nation. Ma Fujun was a hero of the Six Kingdoms at that time, and was the ruler of Fufeng County in the thirty-six counties at that time. After the court gave the surname Ying, he took Ma as the surname and moved to Longxi (now the area of Maoling, Fufeng County, Shaanxi Province). Ma Fujun is the originator of the Ma family in our country, and "Fufeng" is the birthplace of the Ma family in our country. The descendant of the thirteenth biography of Mafujun, Si, entered the customs with Liu Bang (206 BC to 195 BC), the great ancestor of the Han Dynasty in the Western Han Dynasty. The Ma family of Si first settled in Xianyang, and then moved to Bianliang, Kaifeng. In the early Song Dynasty (AD 1127-1130), the Fengzheng doctor Zhibei Ma Gong accompanied Song Gaozong Zhao Gou from Lin'an, Zhejiang, to Guangdong, and settled in Gugang (now the north gate of Huicheng Town, Xinhui City). Ma Zhibei Gong has a skirt, five generations of doctors (the first ancestor Fengzheng doctor Zhibei Gong, the second ancestral court doctor Chiguo Gong, the third ancestral court doctor Sujigong, the fourth ancestral court Feng doctor Yizugong, the fifth ancestral company Xingdafu Liangbi Duke), the third prefect (the second ancestor of Rongzhou Prefecture, the third ancestor of Leizhoufu, Suji, the fourth ancestor of Yingdefu, Yizu), the father and son of Xiangxian (the second ancestor of the ancestral county, Yixiang Xianzhiguo) , Duke Xian Suji of Erxue Township, Xinhui County, Guangzhou Prefecture, the third generation ancestor). After eight generations of Ma Gongzong in Zhibei, its descendants have spread to Huicheng and Dongting in Xinhui, Chaolian, Gaosha and Mayuan in Jiangmen, Baisha and Hengshan in Taishan, Xiecun and Uemun in Panyu, and Ma in Conghua. Villages, Gaoyao in Sihui, Shuiteng in Shunde, Henan in Guangzhou, ancient towns in Zhongshan, etc. After that, the descendants of the Ma family lived separately in Shantou, Chaozhou, Yangjiang, Gaohe, Wuchuan, Guangxi, Hainan and other places . Zhibei Ma Gong is actually the first member of the Ma Clan Kai clan in Lingnan. And because of the famous family of Magong in the north, the court two seals Jinzi (the second ancestor of the country and the third ancestor of Suoji), so the ancestral home of Magong in the north is called Jinzi Street (now the People's Congress of Xinhui City). in front of the court). This is why the name "Golden Purple Church" is used for worshipping ancestors in the Ma clan in various parts of Lingnan and overseas Ma clan. The direct lineages from the first ancestor of the Lingnan Ma clan, Zhibei Gongzong, for eight generations to the Taishan Ma clan are: the first ancestor Zhibei, the second ancestor Zhiguo, the third ancestor Suoji, the fourth ancestor Shaolong, the fifth ancestor Liangbi, and the sixth ancestor Xingxun. The seventh ancestor Xunshan passed on from the eighth ancestor Kangping to the ninth ancestor Yaozuo, Junzuo and Dizuo (who lived in Hengshan Lunchong). The eighth ancestor Kangding gave birth to three sons, who moved from Xialang, Mayuan, Xinhui, to Hengshan Zongzhi. Therefore, the living environment here was harsh at this time. Coupled with the turmoil in the late Song and early Yuan Dynasty, most of the descendants of Kangding moved to Chaozhou, Shantou and Xinhui. The eighth ancestor Kangping had no son, and was succeeded by his cousin Kangcheng's second son Tuan (named Tian Bo). During the Yongle period of the Ming Dynasty (about 1410 AD), Kang Ping and his stepson Tian Bo moved from Xinhui Mayuan to Baisha Madong. Tian Bogong envied the Madong village's splendid caves and mountains, and Shimen revitalized the dynasty, so he accumulated rest and flourished, and the great revival was passed down. The ninth ancestor, Tian Bogong, gave birth to six sons, the eldest son Yuyin, the second son Qiaoyin, the third son Gengyin, the fourth son Muyin, the fifth son Lianyin, and the sixth son Zhiyin. (Attachment: Taishan Ma clan lineage lineage table) The author is the 19th descendant of Tian Bogong (that is, the 28th Lingnan Ma clan), who lived with several Ma clan chiefs twice in 1995 and 1997. A comparative and systematic survey of Ma's separation and demographics in Taishan. The survey results show that the branches of Ma's clan in Taishan are relatively concentrated in Baisha Town, Sanhe Town, Sijiu Town, Hengshan Town, Wencun Town and so on. (A table of the separation of the towns of the Taishan Ma clan branch is attached) The Taishan Ma clan has been passed down for 32 generations. According to the survey, the resident population in the city is nearly 50,000. According to incomplete statistics, there are more than 80,000 clan relatives living abroad and clan relatives living in Xinhui, Enping, Gaozhou, Wuchuan, Yangjiang, Heshan and other places outside the city.
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Post by gckimm on Feb 7, 2022 13:39:30 GMT -5
Hi Cyndie:
First, sorry that I missed your previous post from February 5. I can take a look at that later if you still need help with that.
I had to go back to the Chinese website I found before to figure out what is happening with the translation. Incidentally, the link you provided did not work for me; I don't know why. Sometimes there are problems with links to Chinese sites.
Google Translate seems to have improved its Chinese translations a little, but there are still problems with translating some words literally and without any historical context. Ma Zhibei did not have a "skirt." This is a metaphor. What that line means is that for five generations, the ancestors followed in the footsteps of Zhibei and became officials. Your ancestors were not doctors. The term 大夫 (dai foo in Cantonese/dafu in Mandarin) means "doctor" in modern Chinese but it is also the ancient way of referring to government officials. So wherever you see "doctor," that means that the ancestor had an official position. The words before "dafu" are part of the title of the office. For example, "Fengzheng doctor" actually means "the fengzheng dafu 奉政大夫 Zhibei," with "fengzheng dafu" being the whole title that Zhibei held;the second generation ancestor Chiguo held the title of "chaoyi dafu 朝議大夫"--not "ancestral court doctor." There were many, many titles of government officials in imperial China, so many that there are whole books that are just dictionaries of imperial titles. These books are not easy to obtain but there are very important for serious Chinese genealogists who are trying to understand their genealogies. References to prefectures indicate the geographical place where the ancestor served in that position.
The discrepancy in names may come about because the ancestors mentioned are not ancestors in the direct line that I translated for you earlier. They may be brothers or cousins of those ancestors. Another explanation could be that those are different names for the same ancestors. "Suji" is incorrect. The third generation ancestor is still Xiji.
I hope I shed a little light.
Greg
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Post by mailon on Aug 18, 2022 21:34:05 GMT -5
Hi Greg, I just came across your last post. I thank you for taking the time to explain everything to me. I am going to take some time to analyze and note everything. I will also pass it along to other Ma members I know. If I have further questions, I'll be back to ask you. You are a wealth of knowledge! BTW, when you helped me discover my Ma Ancestral temple, I found out from someone local in the area that the temmple is still working on their zupu, so it will be awhile before I obtain anymore information.
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Post by mailon on Aug 18, 2022 22:27:40 GMT -5
All, I found this video on the Ma Baisha zupu. Hopefully, it will be helpful for someone.
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Post by jeffkantoku on Dec 22, 2023 2:07:31 GMT -5
Chinese coal miners in Nanaimo in 1890 were from the Ma lineage. Hi, I’m a writer and filmmaker living on Vancouver Island in BC, Canada. My latest project is a fictional story that focuses on the struggles of immigrant Chinese coal miners in the Victorian coal town of Nanaimo circa 1890. During my research I learned that many of the Chinese coal miners in Nanaimo were from Guangdong Province and furthermore many were from the Ma lineage. Further research brought me to this Chinese Genealogy Forum and reading it has given me some welcome inspiration for my screenplay. Of course all my characters will be fictional inventions, but they may be inspired by the Ma family ancestors for further authenticity. Origins of Chinese Settlement in Nanaimo Gold rushes brought many Chinese to North America in the mid-1800s; first to the United States, then to Canada. But in Nanaimo, coal was the lure, especially during the winter months when cold weather in the Province’s interior discouraged gold mining. Most of the Chinese who came to Nanaimo were from Guangdong Province (Canton delta region) and the four counties of Toi-san, Sun-wui, Hoi-ping, and Yin-ping. As found here: chinatowns.viu.caAs stated on page 51 of this article: ojs.library.ubc.ca/index.php/bcstudies/article/download/191690/189026/220980“Clearly, almost all of them passed through Victoria on their transpacific voyage to British Columbia or back to Guangdong province. A significant number of these Chinese immigrants transited from Victoria to other settlements on Vancouver Island. In the late 1860s, Chinese labourers began to work for the Vancouver Coal Mining and Land Co. in Nanaimo, and for Dunsmuir, Diggle & Co.’s coal mines in Wellington, about seven kilometres north of Nanaimo, in the early 1870s. When coal mines were slack in mid-1878, nearly a hundred of these Chinese miners from Nanaimo formed two companies to mine gold around Port Alberni in central Vancouver Island. Many of the Chinese coal miners in Nanaimo were from the Ma lineage, and a Ma Look managed their gold-mining activities.” I’d love to learn any of the Ma Family history from Guangdong circa the 1870-90s. That’s a long way back I know, but it would be very exciting to discover! I’ll be checking back to this thread. - Jeff
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Post by tsin.unfoon on Dec 30, 2023 18:33:27 GMT -5
Hi Jeff, my paper name is Mah (馬) but I don't have any information about the Ma clan. I do belong to two Facebook groups where you may find Ma folks. Taishan 台山 Hoisan - This is a Facebook group with members knowledgeable about Taishan. Most if not all have ancestors from the Taishan area. Some may even be working or living there. Good place to ask any questions about Taishan as well getting help with finding ancestors from the Taishan area. www.facebook.com/groups/hoisan Chinese Ancestry Research - This is a Facebook group that members can ask for help on ancestors not specific to any area or to share ancestry information. www.facebook.com/groups/412082416241916Good luck.
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