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Post by geoff on Nov 25, 2008 8:24:56 GMT -5
Everyone, We mustn't forget about another Chinese Aussie dish......sweet corn chicken soup. It's easy to make, tastes great & the locals also love it. Steamboat is popular in winter.
Helen, I also like ching bo leung soup. My mother was raised in outback Aust & didn't have close access to chinese goods like city folk. A brother drove to Sydney once a year to buy dried & canned goods from Chinatown. Visitors from Sydney bought them cooked bbq pork, roast pork & fresh noodles from Kai Yuen. In the country the chinese market gardener grew them chinese vegs. When they ran out they had to adapt by using the local ingredients.
Douglas, we are so lucky we have access to lots of great chinese restaurants & more recently the cakeshops in Chinatown. It's making me hungry talking about all this food but will have to dream about it instead.
Geoff
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Post by geoff on Nov 25, 2008 15:47:56 GMT -5
Douglas,
We also prefer the "old" Showground. Was it because it had wider paths, different styles of buildings reflecting the different eras or that it just had character? We use to go to the "old" more often than to the "new" Showground at Sydney Olympic Park. I haven't been for ages.
I remember one year being nominated to deliver & pickup my children's & their friend's art works for exhibition at the Show. It was easier to deliver (just drop off) than to pick up. I had to make sure that I had everyones art work on the return trip.
Douglas, you picked the most popular day to attend the Show, not by choice. I was told that the "show bags" you buy now, were originally called "sample bags" & were free. The bag contained small packets or jars (ie samples) of the manufacturer's product range for you to try. It's now called marketing. If you liked it, you'd include it on your weekly shopping list with other requirements from the corner grocery store. "The corner general store" is another part of Chinese Aussie history, for discussion later.
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Post by Henry on Nov 25, 2008 16:45:57 GMT -5
My dear friends - Douglas, Ah Gin Geoff, Helen,
There is no doubt that a strong tie that connects us all - is Chinese food, yummy !!!
My visits to the Chinatowns in Sydney and Melbourne were delightful. The food was great and I loved being in a very familiar place like Chinatown when I am traveling abroad - I would have no problem living around these 2 cities.
I did visit Wellington, NZ in 1997, however, I was only there for a day and a half and since it was a business stop - I did not have a chance to find out if there was even a Chinatown. I may be coming again in 2010 and I hope my friends: Kiwi, Joe and Helen can tell me where I might find Chinatowns in NZ.
By the way, I have noticed that overseas Chinese living "down under" do not take being Chinese for granted and are quite proud of their Chinese heritage and try to pass on Chinese traditions and culture to the younger generations. They seem to try harder - I am most heartened by this and salute you guys !
Henry
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Post by helen on Nov 26, 2008 4:28:49 GMT -5
Henry, There used to be Chinatown in Auckland - Greys Ave - Where the opium smokers hung out - and the few authentic chinese restaurants. Now a days there is nothing - we have had to integrate. Northcote and Howick both have high density population of Asians and the shops reflect that.Part of the North Shore has many Koreans. Apart from that we live among the locals I'm sure Wellington doesn't have one either.
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Post by geoff on Nov 26, 2008 5:32:18 GMT -5
Henry, When did you visit Sydney? Did you also visit the tourist sites such as the Opera House, Sydney Harbour or maybe the Blue Mountains on the outskirts of the city? Melbourne's a nice place to visit but doesn't have the picturesque harbour like Sydney.
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Post by chansomvia on Nov 26, 2008 6:00:28 GMT -5
Henry,
As Helen has pointed out there is no Chinatown in Auckland, similarly there is no Chinatown in the other major cities, Wellington, Christchurch or Dunedin. There are concentrations of Chinese shops and Asian restaurants on certain streets in New Zealand but nothing like New York, LA, San Francisco or London or Sydney. The low population in New Zealand will not support a Chinatown.
There is also the conservative reservations on forming a ghetto, as Helen has said Chinatown is associated with opium smoking and other things foreign to the Kiwi way of life.
Fear not though Henry, there has been a large increase in Chinese and to us more importantly Malaysian restaurants where we can take you. Vietnamese, Cambodian, Indian and Japanese restaurants are getting more common. My wife and I are slowly introducing Chinese food to our Chinese Senior Group in Canterbury. They are enjoying it but a lot of explanation sometimes is necessary. This may sound strange but we were told that 40 years ago the main take-away food was fish and chips in New Zealand, hence the lack of knowledge of dim sum, hawkers food such as hokkien fried noodle, noodle soup, various types of fried rice, fried tungfan, hainam chicken rice, etc. To this add the usual sweet and sour pork or fish, sizzling steak, steamed fish plain or with mushrooms etc, chicken with cashew nuts, etc. This list of standard fare goes on. The exotic things such as abalone, shark fin, scallop, fish tongue, crabs, prawns, lobsters, oysters, etc are all here. As Malaysians we also go for nasi lemak ( plate of steam rice with dash of curry and prawn paste, half a hard boiled egg, cucumber , fried whole peanuts, fried anchovy), fish head curry wrapped in a banana leaf, rendang (beef cooked with coconut). This list goes on but food is an important part of village life, I still remember the usual greeting ' hiak cho faan mei tang' instead of "ni hao".
We will take you to the food places. What we lack is a centralised Chinese Association. The original Chinese Association consisted of the old settlers of Siyip origin, this served its purpose until the influx of non-Siyip speaking new immigrants, then Cantonese was used more. This was good going for the older group and those from Hong Kong. With the newer arrivals from China, Taiwan, non-Cantonese speaking Chinese from Malaysia, Singapore, and the increasing amount of Chinese children born here speaking English and only Siyip or little Cantonese we have faced a split.
This is where you could help out, you can spend an afternoon speaking to our group here on how we can improve our contact with the slumbering ( no longer sleeping) giant. It would be nice if Helen could come down as well.
This post is too long but it is an intersting avenue to follow.
Joe
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Post by Henry on Nov 26, 2008 11:00:39 GMT -5
Dear Friends, Thank you so much for the information ! In past years, I have had the pleasure of visiting Sydney twice, Melbourne and Canberra once, and Wellington once. These were all professional and business related visits - so, I never really had an opportunity to savor life "down under" and did not know any Chinese to spend time with. I may be traveling these cities again in 2010, but, this time with my wife and we will take a couple weeks to learn and appreciate overseas Chinese life in this part of the world. I am touched by the warm hospitality and friendships of these wonderful people that I have met "virtually" and later on personally from this SiYi Forum. I do not think there will be any problem having Chinese food during my visit. I must say that some of the very best Chinese food and unique adaptations and fusion of Chinese with local foods in Malaysia is the best I have ever had - really something special ! In response to the very important issue raised by Joe - we could actually plan to have some one day genealogy workshops organized by members of the SiYi Forum in Australia ( Sydney & Melbourne ) and New Zealand ( Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch ) - who could also invite local people to attend the workshop and thereafter spend time discussing possible strategies to address issues and concerns. I believe each of us, can make useful contributions. But, instead of waiting - I suggest that the SiYi members from Australia, e.g., Ah Gin, Geoff, and Douglas form a group to identity issues/concerns for retaining / maintaining Chinese culture, traditions, and language for future generations of Chinese, similarly, Helen, Joe, and Kiwi could do the same in New Zealand. Beyond what might be country- specific, there are probably broad issues/concerns that can be better addressed as a stronger bi-lateral coalition of Australian/New Zealand efforts, than singularly. I suggest that both groups seriously consider the use of Chinese genealogy as the underlying and uniting mechanism that allows for an overall context in terms of Chinese history and language for the personal / family affinity via their Chinese genealogy that ultimately enable overseas Chinese the true connections for being Chinese and related to their own heritage in China. Please take a look at the highly successful efforts for the past 17 year Roots Program of the Chinese Cultural Center of San Francisco: www.c-c-c.org/programs/roots/program-features/This program is primarily addressed towards the younger generation, however, I would like to see a similar program that includes Chinese seniors - they have so much to contribute and would love to also visit their ancestral villages. Besides doing just an annual/bi-annual program - I suggest looking at more sustained long term solutions and working with the Overseas Chinese Affairs Offices that are located at the provincial, county and city levels. These are the support groups that will be needed to assist in locating relatives and ancestral villages, making the arrangements for groups visits and possibly Summer school language and cultural studies in China for the both the yonger generation and the seniors. These Overseas Chinese Affairs Offices are interested in dealing with a large well organized group that already have a program in place. I believe Helen's children made a visit to their ancestral villages in the past year of so. This was through their Tung Jung Association working with one of the Overseas Chinese Affairs Offices. So, there is a base that can probably extended to include Australia and New Zealand. Sorry for rambling. Henry
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Post by douglaslam on Nov 27, 2008 2:59:22 GMT -5
Joe and Henry, You both had the right and noble ideal. But I can only see a very rocky road ahead for a central Chinese Assoc., and getting a genealogy workshop off the ground. The oldest functioning Tong in Australia is the Chinese Masonic Society,Gee Kung Tong. I don't think it is into genealogy and all that. Sze Yup, the reborn Chungshan, Gao Yiu, and Tungzeng societies, are the havens for the people from the Pearl River Delta, Cantonese speakers and up to recent years, the main source of early Chinese settlement. They each conduct its own youth camps and roots journeys into China, and each has its own own network of membership, and contacts in China. The people from HK who arrived in the last thirty years or so tend to make frequent trips back to the former colony, Genealogy is of little relevance to them. The same would apply to the mainlanders arrived before or post Tiananmen 1989. There is a gulf between the northerners and southerners, not just on dialect differences; I think there is a mentality of us and them prevailed. Then there are people like myself, Ah Gin and Geoff in Oz, and Helen and Joe in NZ who are already converts. That leaves people like Barry, who is clutching a piece of paper with an incomplete name on it, or a photo of a tombstone for us to decipher. We want to reach out to them. But they are scattered far and wide. Sorry if I sounded pessimistic, I have seen too many societies formed lately, I don't think they like to relinquish their control and influence on Beijing. I am very impressed by c-c-c. org. There is certainly a lesson for us here. Douglas www.zgbriefs.com
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Post by douglaslam on Nov 27, 2008 6:32:07 GMT -5
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Post by douglaslam on Nov 27, 2008 7:08:17 GMT -5
Friends, Sending a musical link is more than a match for this PC novice. On replay I am getting something quite different to what I had in mind. I hope it works for you.
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Post by Henry on Nov 27, 2008 10:52:07 GMT -5
Hi Douglas,
Thank you for the information about the various Chinese organizations in Australia. It sounds like they have their own programs already set up - which is great and perhaps it is only necessary for the folks in New Zealand to think about what challenges confront the Chinese in New Zealand to maintain and retain their Chinese heritage.
While there maybe several Chinese organizations in the Australia and New Zealand region, it does not sound like there is an overarching forum for researching Chinese genealogy which has its own specific history and focuses on particular areas from which overseas Chinese have originated from. This could just be a "virtual" group as a subsection here within the SiYi Forum. Of course there are many generic issues that SiYi Forum members could contribute to and there are also some very specific challenges that overseas Chinese in Australia and New Zealand have to contend with.
Yes, I am old enough and have been around enough Chinese organizations to know all about the petty politics that characterize many overseas Chinese organizations - but, I still believe that with Internet technologies and the like, we can still organize and do something good for our children and descendants - I for one refuse to stop trying because there are some disagreeable aspects to the problem. I believe our children, grandchildren, and descendants are more than worthy of our efforts.
Henry
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Post by Ah Gin on Nov 27, 2008 22:26:24 GMT -5
Hi Folks,
Gee, interesting thread and you folks are well aware of the "challenges" and prize of having an organisation / Association which has an idealistic and noble aim. As Henry and others noted, petty politics can detract and distract and few of us, including myself will not enjoy such an organisation. The tension between factions, groups, or dare I say, along "ethnic" lines (read North vs South; Siyi vs Siyi; become just too unproductive. My preference is to be involved with an Internet Forum such as this: have a little chuckle looking at various postings, help where we can, offer our advice, share a bit of knowledge if we can, and hold ones tongue when a subject becomes too muddy or straying from the main aim of the forum.
I agree with the ideal that we should do what we can to preserve our proud Chinese heritage, especially for the generations that follow us. And through no fault of theirs, these following generations may not be a knowledgeable about things "Chinese" as we think we do. For that reason alone, we do need to document our own findings, help others who are having real difficulty knowing the difference between Hoiping and Kaiping. More later
Regards, Ah Gin
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Post by geoff on Nov 28, 2008 15:30:58 GMT -5
As Douglas mentioned, there are many small Chinese special interest groups in Australia but only a few Chinese genealogy groups. In Sydney, there are 2 small Chinese Australian family history groups that hold presentations on a regular basis. They are called: Chinese Heritage Association of Australia www.chineseheritage.org.au/ & Chinese Australian Historical Society www.cahs.org.au/. They mainly concentrate on history & heritage of chinese in Australia. There's no online forum like this forum. I agree with Henry's sentiments that "our children, grandchildren, and descendants are more than worthy of our efforts". We may hold these ideals & are working towards them but unfortunately many don't regard family history important. When I've asked some of my relatives for info, their reply was "go & talk to your father" & "make sure you give me a copy when it's completed". Some have been very helpful but they are few & far between. Connecting to this forum has greatly assisted my family history research & general knowledge. I stumbled across this forum a couple of years ago & planned to use it further down the track. I couldn't resist asking the questions that were at the back of my mind. Back then I didn't realise the significance of the name of the site. So thank you for no telling this "Zengcheng neighbour" to find another forum. I'm very appreciative of the maps from Henry & the advice from other members. I hope I've added an "Aussie flavour" to this WWW (World Wide Wok). Eventhough there are only a handful of members who have confessed to being "ABC" (Australian born chinese) or our dear neighbours the "NZBC" (New Zealand born Chinese), I hope others from "downunder" read this site. I tell folks of this site. We don't feel so "isolated" since we hear similar stories from other Chinese living in different parts of the world. Geoff
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Post by geoff on Nov 28, 2008 17:18:10 GMT -5
Back in the late 1950's to the end of 1960's, I was the only chinese kid in the whole school. When I told my kids (now young adults) this recently, they didn't believe me. So I whipped out some old class photos to prove the point. "Dad you are right" & "how come there were so few back then" were their replies. I went on to explain that there were severe restrictions on chinese entering Aust from 1901 (& earlier) to 1970's. I being the only chinese in the whole school was in contrast to their schooling in 1980's & 1990's.
It proves the old saying "a picture is worth a thousand words".
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Post by helen on Nov 29, 2008 2:29:29 GMT -5
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