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Post by gobblewoocky on Jul 29, 2020 11:38:12 GMT -5
Hi. I am Ronald Tan from the Philippines. My grandfather is from Amoy, present day Xiamen China. I just joined here. I was wondering if I can trace our ancestry by posting his picture here? BTW my grandfather is dead already...
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Post by Henry on Jul 29, 2020 13:10:54 GMT -5
gobblewoocky,
Instead of posting his picture, how about posting a picture of his gravestone, it probably has his Chinese name, and Chinese characters for the name of his village.
From the name of his village and the county & province where it is located, this would help to identify where a copy of your family genealogy book may be found.
If you are a Tan, you are probably a Chen clansman - as many of the people using the "Tan" as a surname are using the Min Nan romanization for Chen 陳/陈 and originate from Fujian province. The pinyin romanization of "Tan" refers to my surname: 譚
Henry
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Post by gobblewoocky on Jul 30, 2020 18:15:41 GMT -5
gobblewoocky, Instead of posting his picture, how about posting a picture of his gravestone, it probably has his Chinese name, and Chinese characters for the name of his village. From the name of his village and the county & province where it is located, this would help to identify where a copy of your family genealogy book may be found. If you are a Tan, you are probably a Chen clansman - as many of the people using the "Tan" as a surname are using the Min Nan romanization for Chen 陳/陈 and originate from Fujian province. The pinyin romanization of "Tan" refers to my surname: 譚 Henry Hello Sir Henry, The only information I have about my grandfather is that his Birthplace was in Cham Pa 三巴/參霸/三罷, China in Amoy (according to the immigration paper that I have). However, I am puzzled because Cham Pa is supposed to be in Vietnam (or maybe it is a Street?) or It could be just a fake place because I heard, many Chinese who came in the Philippines during that period have faked their papers. When my grandpa was still alive, he wrote a 1 meter tall diary which details all of his family history. Unfortunately they were all lost in the fire after he died. We cannot read the contents because we don't know Chinese. My grandfather's name is Tan Siok-Pot (My Chinese uncle in HongKong said its spelled as 陳淑不 . When he arrived here in the Philippines, He assumed a name: Chan It or Tan Pit Yao. He has three brothers named Tan Siok-Gian, Tan Siok-Chian and Tan Siok-Jian. (My HongKong uncle told me that its spelled as 陳淑表 ,陳淑雁, 陳淑前). Their father's name is Chan Chiang... But his mother's name is Chua Mi. I wonder, where are the Chua's in Xiamen? Maybe that will provide a clue to our Ancestry as well The tale that I got from my grandfather when he was still alive is that.. His clan/family possessed a Land that is vast and they are rich. When China turned Communist, those were all taken away and they became very poor.. He and his brothers were not able to finish school and were forced to work for a living. Some of his relatives eventually (which we don't know who) settled here in the Philippines and they migrated to work for them and eventually settled here. I think its hard know my grandfather's ancestry because of scant information. Even my uncles from his brothers know only little about family history. But here is my Grandpa's Picture. I wonder if the "Siok" in his name provides a clue? I heard its a Generational name? If my Grandpa's Generation Name is Siok, then what could be the next (for my father) and the next (for me?)
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Post by Henry on Jul 31, 2020 16:44:49 GMT -5
gobblewoocky,
Do you have any information associated with your grandfather in Chinese?
If you do, suggest making copies and sending them to your uncle in Hong Kong, who can read Chinese and he would be able to provide you with some clues.
Okay, you have his name - good. What you need are the Chinese characters for the name of his village and then we can try to see if there are any Chen village genealogy books that would provide you with yoou wit a family history & lineages.
I check those names and i cannot find them around Xiamen.
Henry
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Post by yudhi on Aug 2, 2020 23:31:30 GMT -5
Hi everyone,
I just recently learn about this forum hoping someone can help me to trace my 陈 family genealogy. I'm Indonesian chinese from Bandung, Indonesia. I read the post about 陈 generation poem in which i hope to find similar like mine, but so far i haven't had any luck yet. My grandfather generation name is 華 hua, he was originated from 梅縣 mei xian, 廣東 guang dong (i saw it from his tombstone) My grandpa has 4 sons, my father is the third with all their generation name is 緒 xu & myself is 和 he.
I'm interested to know the generation poem of my ancestor with the hope that i can pass down the generation name for my children in the future. i was only told that i'm a 16th generation from the family line (3rd generation in Indonesia, as the journey start from my grandpa came from mainland to Indonesia (1st gen)) if someone can enlight me for this.
thank you in advance
yudhi
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Post by Henry on Aug 3, 2020 12:15:48 GMT -5
yudhi,
The generation poem is usually found in the village genealogy book or in the clan genealogy book from a nearby clan ancestral hall / temple. If the clan branch is widespread & well known, the genealogy poem may be posted online.
If you can provide the Chinese characters for the name of the village in Mei xian, the village chief can be contacted to check on whether there is a village genealogy available. I know a person in Meizhou that may be able to do this research for you - there is a service fee.
Henry
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Post by kingchua19 on Sept 21, 2020 9:49:22 GMT -5
Greetings! I am trying to look for someone to give me information regarding a place where my great-grandfather came from if how it looks like there and how are the people there now. The place is 福建晋江新门外古圳村 My great grandfather's name is 陳成宗 or Tan Seng Chong who died June 1957, he had his first wife there, I believe in the name of 蔡秋径。. He came to Philippines with the name "Lip Chua Tan Seng" and married a Filipina, I believe the place is in Jinjiang, Fujian, China where most of the Filipino-Chinese came from. After this pandemic and when everything is normal, my family would really like to visit them. Thank you.
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Post by Henry on Sept 28, 2020 8:58:53 GMT -5
kinghua19, I provided you with some information in answer to your same question on the other thread - not necessary to post on different threads: www.google.com/maps/place/%E5%8F%A4%E5%9C%B3%E6%9D%91/@24.913355,118.4747418,12z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x3414d6f00827c1a7:0x795b12e1ba7423a5!8m2!3d24.913355!4d118.544785?hl=en Department of Foreign and Overseas Chinese Affairs of Quanzhou Municipal People's Government Address: Municipal Administrative Center, Fudong Road, Fengze district, Quanzhou Tel: +86-595-2211-0168 Fax: +86-595-2211-0169 Website: www.fjqz.gov.cnEmail: gov@fjqz.gov.cn Before you travel to visit your ancestral village, I suggest contacting the Foreign & Overseas Chinese Affairs Office to see if they can contact the village chief to see if they can identify your village relatives. Also, try to get a copy of the village genealogy book that has the name of your great grandfather and the family lineage. If you have this family lineage, Dr. Philip Tan can probably connect your family lineage to the Tan (Chen) lineage he compiled that traces back to HuangDi, the Yellow Emperor (2697 BC - 2597 BC. If there is no village genealogy book, ask if there is a local Chen ancestral hall / temple or one that covers Quanzhou that may have such a Tan/Chen genealogy book. By the way, take the time to visit Fujian province, with so many beautiful places to visit. Henry
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Post by kingchua19 on Sept 29, 2020 3:30:58 GMT -5
Thank you sir Henry. Will take note of that. Keep safe everyone!
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Post by tonychan on Jan 2, 2021 9:21:00 GMT -5
Hi fellow Chans! I am the 26th generation according to my ancestral book that I found/dug up during my last visit to my parents village back in 2010. I currently reside in Chicago and am still connected with various family members in Hong Kong / Macau and Jiangmen. I got pretty lucky with this find. It was sitting in a random drawer with other documents in my parents village home. It had to been untouched for at least 30+ years since my parents have not lived there since they left for Macau in the early 80s and then to America in the mid 80s. It was probably exactly where the last person left it for me to eventually find . Like everyone else here, I've been very interested in my roots and the whole family history for quite some time. The trail kind of goes cold and info of what I know is a bit fragmented from my grandfather generation and before. I've been meaning to get this ancestral book translated to discover more and see how my ancestors were like. It'll also be neat to see how how connected I am with other fellow Chen/Tan/Chan/Chin on the forum and the broader clan. Any advice on how I can get started? I already have the whole book full scanned in a digital PDF copy. -Tony
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Post by philiptancl on Jan 2, 2021 22:27:34 GMT -5
Hi Tony,
Received your email. Just replied.
You are among the hand-full of people who I had come across that found your ancestral records left behind by your ancestor. Even if one do not understand them, it is advisable never to discard any documents, old letters, photos, etc left by your ancestors.
Philip Tan
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Post by philiptancl on Jan 3, 2021 3:21:24 GMT -5
Hi Tony,
I had received the scan copy of your zupu.
If you have read through my postings in Chinese Genealogy, you may already know that I am illiterate in Chinese; not able to read and write in Chinese. However, given a zupu or jiapu, tracing the pedigree tree of someone ancestry should not pose too much of a problem if the document is in printed Chinese characters, where I could determine how each stroke within a character goes . The big challenge is when the zupu or jiapu is hand written when I could not make out how each stroke within a character is written. For that I have to consult others who could read handwritten Chinese characters to show me how the stroke within each Chinese character is written. This is exactly the case with the zupu that you forwarded to me. From my preliminary examination of your zupu, I should be able to design and construct your pedigree chart from your zupu from your father right up to Chen Hui (陳輝)/Chen Feng Tai (陳鳳臺)’s seventh son Chen Ren (陳仁). From my existing records, I should then be able to connect you all the way up to Huang Di. I hope I would be able to digitize all the names within each generation from your father up to Chen Ren (陳仁). You said your father is Chan Kwok Keung. I suppose that would be Chen Guo Qiang (陳國強). You think it is the very last name on the right written on the last page since he is the youngest son. That part of the chart was added subsequently and the person adding it had used the convention from writing left to right in naming the order of children. The rest of the zupu is written from right to left. Your grandfather is the elder of two sons and his name is given as Chen Zhi Rong (陳枝榮). He would be at Generation 24.
Whilst I can design and construct the pedigree chart for you, you need to get the help of others if you wish to read what is written on the few pages of commentary contained in the zupu. They are written in Classical Chinese; without coma and full-stop. I suppose you may need professional help to translate them if you really want to know what is written. My view is that you need not know those commentaries at this stage.
Philip Tan
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Post by tonychan on Jan 3, 2021 9:29:53 GMT -5
Hi Philip!
I'll continue to correspond here since it might be of interest to other Chan's on this board (unless you prefer email!). Maybe I'll even find an extended relative that I don't know about! As you've said in your previous post, a lot of this has to be collaborative. The more we all contribute and work together as a community, the more we are able to understand where we come from. You 100% exemplify that. Do you think others would be interested in me posting my full Zupu here?
I still have all the old documents and are all in my parents possession. Many of them were old letters corresponding between my relatives in the US, while my parents were living in the village and early pictures. Regarding left to right, I assume it was my grandfather or someone else in my family who wrote that last bit into the book on his own accord. I really don't know much about my grandgfather except for a few misc things since he passed away when my dad was very young and I was not alive yet. Is it true that the Zupu should have some information about his life and other descendants?
Regardless, thank you so much! It's pretty amazing that you can do all this without knowing how to read and write. I admire your patience, thoroughness with your investigative work all these years after reading through all the posts you've done.
BTW - I see that you live in KL! My Mother in law is from Kuching and is a Chuan. I think she mentioned shes Hakka? We plan on visiting when it's safe to do so since my wife has never been. Maybe I would even get the opportunity to meet and thank you in person!
-Tony
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Post by philiptancl on Jan 5, 2021 20:11:19 GMT -5
Hi Tony,
I am in the midst of designing and constructing your pedigree chart for you based upon the zupu you emailed to me. I had tracked each generation from your father up to Chen Ren (陳仁) and to Chen Hui (陳輝)/Chen Feng Tai (陳鳳臺) and his seven sons. To transfer them into the chart I am doing, it is rather slow going as I have to interpret each relevant hand written character contained therein.
Yes, it would be great to meet up with you in KL should you visit your mother-in-law in Kuching. You said she is Hakka and the surname is Chuan. From which ancestral county is her Hakka from and is the surname Chuan written as 泉?
Philip Tan
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Post by philiptancl on Jan 6, 2021 4:06:34 GMT -5
Based upon the hand written zupu supplied by Tony Chan of Chicago, below is the first draft of Tony pedigree chart. I hope the names I could decipher from the zupu are correct. I have permission from Tony to share this chart in this Forum. Tony is in the process to collect other materials and information to add on to the chart. Charts 1, 2 and 3 would be the same as those I had posted earlier.
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