Understanding Jiapu/Zupu for Chinese Illiterates

Philip,

You have my admiration and full support for what you are doing. I will have to disagree with your "self-flagellation" remark that “The blind is leading the blind”. Your knowledge in things “geni” is much more than you give yourself credit for. Your willingness to help others also is rare indeed, but thankfully we have seen quite a few helpful souls on this Forum. If and when I have more energy and at the right moment I will also try to contribute to this thread, mostly from my experience with my own Clan’s Zupu/Jiapu collection. Mind you, as our Clan is considered to be a “small Clan” (but our Clan would hasten to add that it’s a Clan with long history), our Zupu may not be representative of the “common” Zupu. But then what is the common Zupu anyway?

Regards, Ah Gin

I like the COCR2 software because it's faster and I don't have to interpret the handwriting into strokes with the mouse! But, with the attached bitmap file, I had better results with the nciku site. Guess it all depends on the file - it is nice to have these two options. Already this thread has proved helpful! Thanks!

Carol & Philip,

1. Try to enlarge the bitmap image. The larger format can give different choices and more likelihood of a 'hit'.

2. Play with the contrast, darkening or lightening the image.

3. Make sure when you 'mouse' the 'square' cursor over the character, it does not include any extraneous marks from adjacent characters. Sometimes adjusting the size of the 'square' with the <plus(+)> or <minus(-)> sign will give you different 'hits' or results. Remember, you cannot use the <plus(+)> or <minus(-)> above the QWERTY keyboard. You must use the numerical keypad. That makes the laptop keyboard (sans numeric keypad) problematic.

4. The tutorial is full of screenshots and rather well written. Hopefully the tricks above will give you additional usefulness. The best teaching is always the 'hands on' instructor.

After that, it is too much work and I just use NICKU or this other site:

Mouse Chinese Input Method<=click

MWSnap3<=click. I am not that proficient with MWSnap3 because I use other programs.

BTW: for posting screenshots on this forum, I ran across this program Greenshot<=click It allows me to circle things and insert text nicely. With the previous program I used my circles were squiggly and made me look like I had hand tremors.

Doug

It gives me much satisfaction to observe that this thread seems to be serving as a platform for exchanging valuable tips on the pursuit for our common interest in Chinese genealogy especially among members of this Forum who are not able to read and write Chinese. In response to Ah Gin comment about sharing (I won’t use helping as he did and I might had said this before in this Forum but I say it again) it gives me great pleasure as I learned as much as I shared. This is indeed proven in my recent sharing with Doug; I come out with greater knowledge than before.

The second chart I am posting here is in connection with the numbering system in Chinese. When you have no knowledge of it, you may quickly get confused when looking at your jiapu and could be put off even before you started. In particular do remember the characters for the first and the second when the order of the sons for a man is quoted in the jiapu. Also it is also necessary to recognize how the day within the Chinese solar month is being quoted. Do see the differences as pointed out in the chart. For this chart, I had extracted the main part from the following website but added my own that are in blue:

www.sinosplice.com/life/archives/2004/11/13/number-character-variants



Philip

Carol,

Thought I will join in the fun. I am sure Philip and others will jump in to add value, if required.

“Capital” form is used to prevent fraud or to avoid confusion. For example, if written in “small letter”, it will be very easy to change 1 to 2 (by adding another stroke). Whereas if written in Capital form, it is virtually impossible to simply alter the word and the meaning, not unless one does a cut and paste, physically. As I recall it, Capital numbering is used extensively by merchants to keep accounts and such likes for the obvious reasons.

Regards, Ah Gin

Hi Carol,

It is very useful whenever you ask for any further clarification as we go along; otherwise I would not know to what extent I need to dealt into or elaborate for Chinese illiterates like us in getting a clearer understanding.

I had prepare my chart responding to your queries last night and what I said therein for that part regarding "capital" Chinese character for numerals would already be stated by Ah Gin. Actually I only learnt about "capital" Chinese character for numerals while examining Doug’s jiapu a few days ago; just slightly ahead of you. That is what I mean "the blind leading the blind": at best, the three year old attempting to teach the two year old. I would suggest that you do not worry about "capital" Chinese characters at all. You would learn automatically whenever you come across it in your jiapu, more so when you are now already aware of it.

Since you touched on the Chinese Date System I have also included, in the chart, an example of how date is quoted in jiapu. Many thanks to Ah Gin for pointing out the website regarding the Chinese Date System. I have yet to read the website while writing this but at first glance it looks quite intimidating, at least to me. I have constructed my own spreadsheet for converting between Chinese dates (as quoted in jiapu) to Gregorian dates. I recently shared this with Doug over the email. I just used it, for the first time, when trying to convert a few dates for Doug that was contained in a couple of profiles within his jiapu. I also just calibrated the spreadsheet a couple of days ago and I have yet to email the revised copy to Doug.

For the example quoted in the following chart, I have just stated the results of the conversion without explaining how I did it. Maybe Ah Gin could verify the accuracy of my conversion. Actually, for beginners trying to construct the pedigree line from the maze of profiles given in a jiapu, I would suggest that you leave this aspect to a latter date after you have already understand how to connect up from one generation of your ancestor the next; that is, concentrate how to get through the maze first and come back to the Chinese Date System later on if you so desired. Otherwise you may have too much on your plate.

I had seen the conversion of dates being discussed elsewhere in this Forum, but being "a little grasshopper" (as Ah Gin put it) as far as Chinese genealogy is concerned, I was too embarrassed to join in to put forth my two bits worth as to how I go about doing it. I had being pondering whether I should discuss it in this thread latter on so as to share with the readers; how it is construct it and how it can be used. As Doug had seen the spreadsheet, maybe he could advise. It could be a good should I do it and then let us, the Chinese illiterates, to choose the most convenient way in going about it, i.e. if we are really interested in that aspect of Chinese genealogy.



Going back to the Chinese numbering, as being normally done nowadays, I am reposting that in siyigenealogy.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=names&action=display&thread=1235&page=2 below but with some of Generation numbering, already shown converted, included. As that chart relates to Carol surname and for the final test before the passing out parade, Carol could undertake to convert it into a chart easy for readers to follow.



Philip

Hi Philip,
Sorry I haven't been in touch as business (starting a new restaurant) got in the way in terms of time (or lack of it).
I am so impressed by your new charts posted in SiYi. Thank you for sharing all the new found information. You have lit a fire or drive for me to research my family genealogy again. Thank you. In one of your postings, you stated that you could fill in LEE (Li) genealogy information which I am very much interested. My wife side and my mother side are Lee (Li) from Guangdong province, Taishan district. Your help is always much appreciated.

All the best,

John