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Post by philiptancl on Sept 14, 2008 20:10:52 GMT -5
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Post by xuangxing on Sept 14, 2008 22:42:40 GMT -5
Hi Phillip,
You and Henry must have made some very interesting discoveries when the two of you went to Bukit China in Malacca ("the oldest chinese graveyard"). So, apart from the vandalism highlighted in the article "Making Ancient Connections", are there other insights that the two of you would like to share with the members of the forum?
For instance, how do the gravestones at the Bukit China site differ from those in the USA, and for that matter other parts of the world? Generally, is the information inscribed on the gravestones at Bukit China of sufficient value to a descendant about to embark on a mission of "self-discovery" to trace his genealogical lineage?
In the same article, it is reported that Henry urged "the local clan associations to get together to digitally capture information from the gravestones and then place the information on the Internet for research purposes". Although, I wonder whether this is feasible and whether it has been done elsewhere, I believe that if such a database were to exist it would be extremely useful to those Malaysians seeking to trace their roots.
While we hope the clan associations will respond to Henry's call, I am sure that the various articles that appeared in the Malaysian newspaper will spark off interest in chinese genealogy amongst Malaysians. I am also very sure that what both you and Henry have achieved in this field will inspire other Malaysian 'bananas' (yellow on the outside, but white inside) to want to trace their own roots.
Kudos to you and Henry!
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Post by Henry on Sept 15, 2008 15:54:08 GMT -5
Dear Friends & Colleagues,
In the past, I have visited Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia several times professionally, but, after chairing a UN conference workshop - for the next two days Dr. Philip Tan and family & friends were so kind, gracious, and welcomed me into their home. The Chinese food in Malaysia is fantastic, but, its greatest assets are its wonderful people !
We had such a great time visiting a Chinese family temples and family association and also did a day trip to the Chinese cemetery in Malacca. Philip and I shared a lot of information Chinese genealogy and I am very impressed by how much Philip knows after just a couple of months of research. I was fortunate enough to be able to share some of my genealogy information with a PowerPoint presentation and I sense there is a lot of interest in Malaysia for Chinese genealogy. I believe there are over 7 million Chinese living in Malaysia. My website "Tom Genealogy" has received over a 100 hits in a 24 hour period.
In answer to Xuangxing's question, many of the gravestones at the Bukit China are older than those found in the US, Canada, and probably Australia because of the Chinese emigrations to these places during the 19th century - whereas, Chinese have been emigrating to Malaysia since the 15th century. There was a rather large Chinese Temple for this cemetery.
These gravestones are inscribed with Chinese characters for the person's name, birth and death dates, province and village names. But, there are also quite a few graves that just a few years old - so this is an active cemetery. What is interesting about the gravesites - is that they are very traditional in the Chinese design with a semi-circular grave configuration and a separate gravestone for the Earth God on the side. This is not common in the US. Nowadays, the US cemetery policy only allows for one major vertical gravestone for the family surname and then flat laying foot-stones for each individual grave.
I am not sure if a systematic inventory of Chinese gravestones in cemeteries has been done before, however, I do believe that this would be a great resource for people trying to research their Chinese genealogy. This would not be hard to do - you would need a map of the cemetery, a GPS unit to record the geographic coordinates of each grave site and digital photos of each gravestone.
Since the feature article about my visit and the Philip Tan's genealogical interests, Philip and I believe that the single best mechanism to initiate Chinese genealogy in Malaysia is that the "Star", largest newspaper in Malaysia, should seriously consider hosting a Malaysian Chinese Genealogy Forum and that it should be linked with this SiYi Forum.
It was my great honor, pleasure and delight to have met so many wonderful Chinese friends and colleagues in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia and sharing and learning about Chinese genealogy in Malaysia. I am hoping to return in January 2009 - stay tuned.
Henry Tom
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Post by Ah Gin on Sept 15, 2008 23:59:07 GMT -5
Henry,
You did us proud -- you are indeed a great ambassador of this Forum. If in the future there is a gathering of like-minded people in KL or indeed somewhere in Malaysia, do let us know. It will be fun to share our knowledge.
Regards, Ah Gin
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Post by helen on Sept 16, 2008 1:33:40 GMT -5
and you are welcome to New Zealand as well Henry
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Post by Woodson on Sept 16, 2008 18:46:56 GMT -5
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Post by geoff on Sept 17, 2008 17:00:42 GMT -5
Hello Henry,
I can relate to your sentiments & experiences as an overseas born Chinese researching our family history locally & from afar. My ancestors left the villages 5 & 6 generations ago for Australia's "Gold Mountain". It's taking me quite a while to compile the local history but it's well worthwhile. When I started documenting my parents' oral histories, I didn't feel the need to visit our ancestral villages. The more I research locally, the more I find, & now I want to visit our ancestral villages. Luckily we know the names of the villages & approx locations of the villages. Many thanks to Henry & others on this forum for their assistance. I'm now armed with info to approach the China end or rather beginning, of my journey. Unfortunately, I can't speak or write chinese so will be totally dependant on the generosity of others in China.
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Post by Henry on Sept 17, 2008 17:47:28 GMT -5
Greetings to my friends & colleagues, Ahgin, Helen, Woodson, and Geoff,
It is only through the initial kindness and generosity of sharing information and educating me by Kevin Lee, SiYi Genealogy webmaster, and resident Chinese genealogy expert, Al Chinn, on this SiYi Forum that I have learned a great deal about Chinese genealogy. I continue to learn by trying to help others. But, as they say, "the more your know, the more you realize how little you know".
Geoff, just because you cannot speak or read/write Chinese - do not let this deter you from your research or from visiting your ancestral villages. Whether we care to admit it or not, I have always admired the "can do" attitude of overseas Chinese immigrants and their descendants. The cost for a guide/interpreter in China is still reasonable. I believe that with the rise of China as a super-power and China's program of establishing "Confucius Institutes" to teach Chinese in most countries throughout the world - our children/grandchildren, and descendants will probably be able to speak Chinese and be Chinese literate in the future - just because the world economy and global affairs require it. So, I am saving all my Chinese sources for my family genealogy for them.
Genealogically, my current concern is that the recent partnership of the Shanghai Library with Ancestry.com to produce an on-line database from the large collection of Chinese genealogy books at the Shanghai Library - that can only be queried in Chinese is a tremendous dis-service to the approximately 50 million overseas Chinese that may also want to research their Chinese genealogical heritage and lineage.
Is there a petition that I can sign - to raise this issue to the attention of the senior management of Ancestry.com ?
Henry
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Post by philiptancl on Sept 18, 2008 9:55:56 GMT -5
Thank you for the interest on this posting.
Even though I am a Chen (’Â), Henry visit to Kuala Lumpur was the first time I had ever stepped into a Surname Clan association in general and Chen (’Â) surname association in particular. This is because I am among one of the many Chinese in Malaysia who are illiterate in Chinese. I am sure there are many among Malaysian Chinese like me who are very interested in Chinese history and Chinese genealogy and who, like me, would also be very interested in joining surname clan associations, and had it not be because of our language handicap.
Even when I go through limited portion of the past postings in this Forum, I realize the tremendous interest among the gEnglish only literate Chineseh in US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand in tracing their linage. In spite of the tremendous disadvantages that these Chinese are facing, there are people like Henry Tom that had to make huge sacrifices (in term of time and finance) in order to trace their lineage, not so much for themselves, but the future generations to come. In Chinese history it was probably through people like him that I, as a Chinese in Malaysia, could trace my ancestry all the way back to 4,000 years ago.
From my own perspective, I believe it is still relatively easy now for Malaysian Chinese to trace their ancestry compare to most of you in other countries. However for Malaysian Chinese in the next few generations it will increasingly become more and more difficult. If the current generation of Malaysian Chinese, especially among the Clan Surnames associations, could take some concrete remedial steps now, it could ease the burden that will be place upon the future generations of Malaysian Chinese. At my own personal level and being almost among about the only one left among my generation descended from my grandfather who first came to Malaysia, I have done my part for his descendants. However I have secured some indication from Henry that he might be able to assist us, Malaysian Chinese, especially the English only literate one, to remedy the situation. Between the two of us, there is a limit to what we can do especially when I hardly have even a small percentage of Henryfs energy level.
I have just written to the Federation of Chen (’Â) Association of Malaysia proposing that they firstly set up an English Chapter and secondly set up a section dedicate to Chinese genealogy. I believe that Chen (’Â) constitute one of largest group of Chinese in Malaysia, if not the largest.
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Post by geoff on Sept 18, 2008 16:41:08 GMT -5
Hello Henry,
The lack of knowledge of the Chinese language isn't restricting my research in Australia but as I start to delve into our roots at village level, I'll need assistance.. My cousin has just visited one of our villages near Canton & returned with a list of male names in chinese of my great grandfather's & great great grandfather's generations. I had the list translated locally & I recognise 3 names of my ggf's generation who lived in Australia. I've been told that each generation are either brothers or cousins as they have the same generation name. The only problem with the list is that it doesn't show who is related to who (ie who is the father of which son). Also, it doesn't list any female names. Looks like we've made our first step into Chinese genealogy in China.
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Post by Henry on Sept 18, 2008 18:33:26 GMT -5
Hi Geoff,
Ask your cousin to contact one of the relatives in the ancestral village to obtain a copy of the family genealogy book which will probably contain the clan generational poem, with each Chinese character representing a generation in the hierarchy of the family lineages and the lineage charts that will delineate the relationships between the various ancestors and clarify the information that your cousin obtained.
Unfortunately, traditional Chinese genealogy lineages are patrilineal and there is usually no references to women, except to the surname of the wife's clan as part of an annotation to her's husband's entry in the lineage chart. The lineage of women in the family will have to be traced according to the surname and lineages of her father. For my own family genealogy lineage in the US - I am planning to include everybody.
Regards,
Henry
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Post by geoff on Sept 28, 2008 15:41:53 GMT -5
Hello Henry,
I'll get my translator to send a letter to our contact in the village.
I'm also going to include everyone in the family tree. It'll make it easier for future generations to trace & comprehend.
Thank you for your assistance.
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Post by Henry on Sept 29, 2008 13:32:19 GMT -5
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Post by philiptancl on Dec 15, 2008 22:49:45 GMT -5
Followers of this SiYi Forum may recall that Henry Tom visited Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia in August 2008 and the articles on genealogy that appeared in the leading English newspaper on September 14, 2008 arising from his visit. See below: www.market-eagles.com/MarketEagles/STAR/genealogy.htmFollowing the articles, I received the following email that read: " Hi,
My family name is Qi (Æî)
My dad came alone to Malaya from Kwantung (Guangchou) China before the WWII. He passed away 22 yrs ago. I have an old diary from him in which he wrote down his mom's address (in hardly legible Chinese characters). Where can I find a map or some help to locate my dad's village.
I would appreciate any help I can get ." I passed that above information to Henry. I do not know exactly the details of how Henry did it. What I do know was that the service of Tan Shi Cheng was employed in locating the village and the Mr. Qi's relatives there. Last night I received this email from Mr Qi that read as follow: " Someone called from Dongguan a few minutes ago. He is the son of my dad's youngest brother.
He could tell me the names of my mum, my name and my brothers name and my birthday too.
I now know that my dad is the eldest of six siblings. Some of his siblings are still living. One of them in HK,
I am most grateful and wish to thank everyone, especially Mr Cheng (Tan Shi Cheng) for all the help." |
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Post by peacefuldove on Dec 26, 2008 9:55:00 GMT -5
Hi Henry - I am so proud to read that you visited my country and also raised such high profile on the importance of genealogy in Msia. Thank you.
Initially, when I researched on my genealogy & for my ancestral village, some said that I have "nothing better to do"...now that I have found and visited my ancestral village, I am very happy to note that some of my relatives now wanted to make the trip to China too to visit my grandpa's village & find our missing relatives...
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